Episode 13: Libido, desire and connecting with pleasure
How do you really feel about your desire and connection to pleasure?
Curious? Confused? Maybe even a little frustrated?
In this episode of Women of the Well, we’re diving into one of the most fascinating and misunderstood aspects of health: libido.
Whether you’re navigating the ups and downs of desire or simply curious about how to connect more deeply with your pleasure, this conversation is packed with insights and practical tools to inspire and empower you.
Dr Peta Wright, Dr Thea Bowler, and Sam Lindsay-German take an honest, evidence-based, and holistic look at what impacts libido – and how you can feel more connected to yourself, your partner, and your life.
Why you’ll love this episode:
🌿 Discover why libido isn’t just about sex – it’s about how you feel in your body, your life, and your relationships.
🌿 From tantric-inspired practices to Moon Centres in yoga, learn how to nurture connection and bring more pleasure into your daily life.
🌿 Why hormones like testosterone aren’t the main factor – and what really affects desire, including stress, safety, and connection.
🌿 Understand the difference between spontaneous and responsive desire – and how to make intimacy work beautifully in long-term relationships.
🌿 Rediscover the link between sexual energy, creativity, and your overall zest for life.
🎧 Listen now and let us know what you think.
Resources and Recommendations:
📖 Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski – The ultimate guide to the science of female sexuality and desire.
📖 Come Together by Emily Nagoski – A follow-up exploring deeper dimensions of connection and intimacy.
💡 Lubricants:
Olive & Bee – Organic olive oil and beeswax-based lubricant (not suitable with latex condoms).
Coconut oil or olive oil – Natural, nourishing alternatives.
Stimulating lubricants – Options that add warmth or tingling for extra sensation.
Specialty lubricants from Ellechemy – Options infused with testosterone or Viagra for enhanced blood flow.
🧘 Moon Centres (from yoga traditions): Enhance connection and pleasure through gentle touch and tantric-inspired practices.
🧘♀️ Pelvic flow movements: Try yoga-inspired practices like pelvic tilts to increase connection and flow.
We would love to hear from you.
If you have any questions about you’d like us to answer on a future episode of the podcast, please email them to hello@verawellness.com.au or contact us on Instagram @verawellness.com.au.
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Episode transcript:
Ep 13 – Libido, desire and connecting with pleasure
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[00:00:00] Dr.Peta: Hello, and welcome to Women of the Well. I'm Peta Wright. I'm Thea Bowler, and I'm Sam Lindsay-German.
It's good to be here at the beginning of an episode for once rather than popping halfway in. We are going to talk about libido today, which is such a huge I think for so many of the women that come to see us and there's a lot of, confusion and shoulds and expectations that we place upon ourselves and have placed on us.
from the society that we live in, that we wanted to just really speak some truth about it today.
[00:01:35] Dr.Thea: we see patients really, really often for whom that is their main reason for coming for a chat. And what I always find is that people are often very concerned about their libido, but when you actually flesh it out with them, They're not concerned about their libido.
It's the comparison of their libido to the man in their life. And the women are feeling like there's something wrong with them. Because their sexual desire and desire for spontaneous sex perhaps isn't meeting or equal to that of their partners.
[00:02:13] Sam: Or that of social media, and the films that they're watching and everything else.
But the first thing I just want to do is just say Can we just explain what libido is?
[00:02:24] Dr.Peta: It actually means a lust for life, actually.
[00:02:29] Dr.Thea: Well, we're all libidinous. I know, but that is
[00:02:32] Dr.Peta: the thing. That's what it actually means. And I think that when so many of the women who come to see me are talking about their sexual libido, before I even get to that, we'll talk about, well, how are you feeling in your life?
How excited are you for the life that you're living? How in alignment do you feel? How much energy do you have when you greet the day? And most of the time when women have a, what they would class as a low libido, that lust for life in general is Reduced, which is a big clue because it's kind of not normal to have a ragingly high libido if you're feeling stressed, shut down, numb, anxious, depressed ill at ease in your life or your body.
It's like, Well, of course, like it would be weird if you did have islabins in that circumstance. So like the first question is, before we even look at that, I guess, how are you feeling in your life and your body? And whenever anyone comes to see us, like I always, always, always recommend this book and this resource by, um, a woman called Emily Nagowski, which is called Come As You Are.
Do you always recommend that?
[00:03:43] Dr.Thea: Always recommend it. And she's written another book called Come Together, which I haven't read yet because it was only just released. Come As You Are is all about the science of female desire and female sexuality and is incredibly validating for lots of women.
[00:03:58] Dr.Peta: And she also makes a very good point that your libido, whatever it is, is normal because whatever it is, the particular time is a reflection of how you feel about your body, how you feel about your life, the energy that you have, how you feel about your partner, how safe you feel in the world.
So it's not the libido that's a problem. The libido, if you feel it's a problem, is a symptom of other things. Yes,
[00:04:24] Dr.Thea: and I would say is incredibly rarely slash never a symptom of hormones. Yes. I think that's a really, really big thing is that there's a lot out there in the media that says if we just correct hormones.
That our libidos will be improved. And Emily Nagorski actually talks about it in her book, that there was a big study where they looked at women who had issues with libido. And in that study, there were none that were associated with hormonal issues. and I think that on the whole, obviously it's not black and white, but on the whole, it's the way that we're living and all of the things you spoke about, Peter, that actually impact on our libido rather than one particular hormone.
And I think the, one of the key questions I always ask is like, what does it lack for you when you're on holidays? And almost everyone's like, Oh, it's great. We love having sex. We have sex all the time. And I think that's a really amazing indicator that actually it's the stress we're in and the life we're living, the lack of sleep we're having, all of those things that are obviously and logically reducing.
Our desire to be playful and creative and intimate
[00:05:33] Dr.Peta: and vulnerable. And the thing is about the hormone thing, if you are a woman in the, in your reproductive years and you're having a natural cycle we were talking about this in another episode, but you will get a surge of estrogen and testosterone like once a month.
And so that is where you are most likely to feel the effects of the positive, the Uh, effects of hormones on libido and wanting to have sex, because biologically that makes sense, right? That's why we would want to make babies. But if you, there might be many women who come, as you talked about, who say, I only feel like having sex once a month.
Like that's abnormal, but that's when our hormones do make us want to have sex. The other rest of the time, it's not so hormonally mediated, I would say. And then the thing about um, Perimenopause and menopause, yes, having lower estrogen can be a factor especially maybe in how the vagina feels, um, with like that lack of moisture for some people and dryness and sometimes pain.
But lower testosterone, which is often linked to this time of life, actually scientifically isn't linked to a decline at perimenopause. It declines probably in our 30s after it peaks in our 20s. And although we do have some evidence that using testosterone can help improve, one episode of sex per month with giving back testosterone anecdotally, I actually find that it doesn't make a massive difference for women and actually focusing on all of the other lifestyle things is far, far, far more important.
And the two hormones that are more relevant would be cortisol, adrenaline, Because they will absolutely reduce our libido because we don't feel safe. And if we don't feel safe, we can't be vulnerable and having sex is one of the most vulnerable things we can do.
So, um, naturally it's not a survival advantage. If we have high stress levels that we would want to have sex because that would actually be a survival disadvantage if like if you imagine, an antelope running away from a lion so high stress, high cortisol, which is mirrors how we feel in our lives, but persistently.
It would be completely ridiculous for that antelope to have a libidinous thought and just to like stop and want to have sex because that would be a complete survival disadvantage. So to have a lower libido in a state where we're stressed, stretched, got so much in our plate is actually our body doing what it should be doing.
Keeping us safe.
[00:07:50] Dr.Thea: Absolutely.
[00:07:51] Dr.Peta: And the other hormone is oxytocin.
[00:07:53] Dr.Thea: Yes. So,
[00:07:55] Dr.Peta: and I think that is a hormone that is lower in the kind of societies that we live in, where we have less connection, less eye gazing, less, Less touch, less time to sort of just be in each other's presence and it's like the hormone of safety.
Yeah. So I think those are more valid hormones to be talking about and how can we increase that and decrease our stress hormones so that we feel safer, playful, curious, open, those things that allow us to want to connect and have sex.
[00:08:25] Sam: Absolutely.
[00:08:27] Dr.Peta: And I think,
[00:08:27] Dr.Thea: way.
Women feel they should be feeling the way that society and culture tells us we should be having sex. the way that a lot of our husbands think we should be having sex is perhaps not for a lot of women, not all women, but for a lot of women not the way they would naturally, yeah, desire to have sex and that includes both frequency, type of sex, all of those things.
But I think, I would talk to every single woman that we see every day about this and all the women are saying, I don't ever really feel. Like I naturally want to just engage initiate sex and my husband is always wanting to initiate sex and there's that huge divide which is upheld and propagated by everything we see in the media, you know, which is that we should all be having sex three times a week or more and if we're not, there's something wrong with us.
[00:09:23] Sam: a lot of that has to do with, whether we feel safe. Whether we have time, whether we have space, and then the difference in our nature. We are receptive, so we have to be open to receiving. And whereas a man just plants a seed, it's very different And just allowing to pause and contemplate what it means to be open and receptive.
going back to what you were talking about to do with the nervous system and connecting and thinking about the vagus nerve, which is the wandering nerve that moves through the body and really is connected to how that autonomic nervous system is functioning. If we're not able to open, if we're not able to feel free enough to stretch our arms out while widely.
And fling our hair back, if we're curled up and holding ourselves tightly, then we can't actually open to the act of having sex. so that's why we don't necessarily want it all the time. But once, if we are with a partner who can understand that we need some time and we can be stroked and caressed and maybe massaged for a bit, not.
You know, straight to the breasts, then we actually can begin the process of opening and that's the uncoiling, um, which is so beautiful that women do. We sort of open ourselves and say, yes, but I, yes, isn't on the outside. I yes is on the inside. And I always just like to think about that. Whereas a man's yes is on the outside.
It's right there. I'm a yes.
It's inside and it's, actually got to have time to be considered. and that again comes down to our culture of being busy, trying to just fit things in. and it seems unsexy to plan sex rather than thinking. If I was to say to my husband okay, Tuesday is the day, then we can have all the time until Tuesday.
I don't know, just looking at each other going, Tuesday and actually getting ready. And we just don't seem to have that anymore. We don't have that. I was contemplating how I felt when I first met my husband. Do you remember those stages where you were in? I often think about this when you're talking about that lust for life.
Do you remember those feelings that you used to have when you were? I was in my 20s and I met my husband and just seeing him was enough to make me want to just rip my clothes off. And I often think about that. I understand that that's lust. It's dopamine. It's dopamine. But yes, but it's, just so interesting to think about because it, it does.
I mean, he's the same man, but it, isn't there now in the same way. And I know that that has to be to do with my body knowing I need to be with him to reproduce. And so I'm driven. And I also think it's got a lot to do with smells. I really want to talk about that. We just seem to mask all our natural smells.
So. We're not really getting turned on by smells.
[00:12:16] Dr.Peta: I think at the start, it's a really good thing to think about because often women will say it's comparing their libido to yes, their partners, but then also to what it was like at the beginning of their relationship, which is ridiculously unfair because at the beginning we have adrenaline, Oxytocin, obviously, dopamine, like, it's like that addiction.
I remember, like, being in a room with my husband feeling my heart beating, like, so fast and just, you know, all of that. You can't get enough of them. but that changes over time. we still have oxytocin but we need to cultivate it a little bit more with connection. and that's the time bit that we're just not prioritizing.
And I think all the research says, in most, heterosexual long term relationships, women's spontaneous libido or desire goes down over time, almost universally. And that's not a bad thing, it just speaks to the fact that women like novelty, and we can bring that into our relationship without, I always say, well you could get a new partner, or you could, um, inject some novelty in other ways, or.
Alternatively, you can just go, okay, well, this is how our bodies work. There's another kind of desire called reactive or responsive desire, which is like planning it. And most of the research on couples who sustain a satisfying, beautiful sexual relationship don't rely on spontaneous desire because otherwise.
like waiting forever for the woman to feel that. Instead , they utilize that, um, responsive desire. So they do plan. And I think that when you realize that you can have so much like compassion and understanding for that's the way our bodies are and you release the pressure and for men to understand that too, so that they're not thinking, Oh my God, why isn't she, initiating sex when she used to.
It's nothing to do with them. It's to do with the way our biology is for the vast majority of people. I think that's helped like so much in my relationship because that understanding and then the, you know, male part of not feeling like it's a rejection.
It's like, No, this is the way your body works and yes, there might be less frequency, but then the quality of um, sex when you come together, when you've, set everything in place, um, so that you feeling all the things you need to feel is so much better than having, I don't know, Sex five times a week that's no one wants to be having or that only one person wants to be having because they actually Don't want to be having that kind of sex either
[00:14:42] Sam: No, I think that's absolutely right. They don't want to have sex with you because you feel you should yes
[00:14:46] Dr.Peta: but often women don't communicate that they just do it don't say anything and Pretend there's still I think especially our generation I would say Because I don't actually think when we were growing up I don't think that was a priority, it was like you, had sex like a man, and it was like you could meet someone and like it was totally normal to just like up and, you know.
It was never satisfying and always the focus was on the man and not anything on what you were feeling.
[00:15:15] Dr.Thea: Because we were never taught about pleasure, our own pleasure.
No. Like we were never taught. how to feel pleasure in our own bodies or even as you say, like, even that it is right and okay to feel pleasure in our own bodies. You know, like there's never been any education about that and there probably still isn't. And actually it's probably worse because every kid is watching porn now.
But like that whole. idea of like, yes, sex was for the men.
[00:15:40] Dr.Peta: And a disconnection from what you would want and be able to communicate.
[00:15:45] Dr.Thea: And a sense of just, well, you just be quiet about it.
[00:15:47] Dr.Peta: Yeah, that's right. And then, but then I think that a lot of women in now long term relationships still like, it's like the obligation.
I'm doing the duty. I'm having sex. I'm doing the thing three times a week, but For them, it's just like another chore at the end of the day. I reckon a lot of people could relate to that rather than being able to say, is important for me to sustain that sexual relationship for our relationship.
And for me as a sensual being as well. And for my partner, but it's gotta be intentional and actually intimate and actually a connection rather than just, and act, which is what I think a lot of women feel like they just have to do. And knowing about how those different levels of desire work, I think, and communicating really helps.
But I think
[00:16:30] Dr.Thea: it's the way that we're living that is not Giving anyone space for that intentionality, but people don't realize that that is what can create the magic.
[00:16:39] Sam: But I
[00:16:40] Dr.Thea: think like we were saying before, you know, people are picking their kids up from school, going to two sporting activities, coming home, making dinner.
Then trying to clean up and get ready for the next day. There's very little space in there for any exploration of connection And I think what you say is really true as well, that for a lot of women, our connections with our partner is much more emotional and we get a sense of of love and connection from that emotional intimacy.
With a partner. Whereas for men, a lot of the time they get a sense of being loved and connection through
[00:17:16] Sam: sex
[00:17:16] Dr.Thea: and through physical intimacy. And so if you can marry the two, you with the courtship, with the displays of love and affection and emotional connection with the physical side, like that's
[00:17:29] Dr.Peta: gold.
that idea of being in the mood, so much of it is the head space.
Because if we're in our head, obviously we can't be in our bodies. And if we can't be in our bodies, we can't let go, and we can't be in the moment and enjoy sex, right? Which is so, I think, again, so many women's issues, and like, has been a challenge for me at times too. But I feel like it's that ability to be able to surrender, like to, let go of all the things that you think you need to hold and to feel safe enough to let that go and then be able to just surrender.
And I think that you need to feel safe with the partner that you're with to be able to do that. And I think a lot of the time, women, uh, leading these lives that don't allow any time or space for that because, operating at that, from that masculine do, do, do, do, do energy, like 98 percent of the time, then that being surrendering, releasing, receiving energy just Isn't there and that is a huge part of the problem for many women like I feel like it has been for me and like being able to realize if I'm running at that energy and I'm not being able to slip into that receptive, feminine side, I can't get into my body.
then when you realize that that's the key to it, that's a really important thing too.
[00:18:53] Sam: what I'm hearing there is a word that people don't like, we have to be submissive. and that's a challenging word. This is, um,
[00:19:01] Dr.Peta: we were reading a book about that too.
And someone had mentioned being like a bratty sub, so it's like you're someone who wants to be submissive, but then you want it to be on your own terms, doesn't quite know how to do it. And we were like, Oh, we must be bratty subs.
[00:19:17] Sam: Well, I think it must be very hard if you are a type. Personality who has been learning how to be in the world as an A type, which is really what we're talking about here is functioning in the masculine world as really a man, um, trying to perform on that same level.
It's then quite hard to then go, Oh, okay, I'll now, I'll now be a woman and I just lay back and let you take me. And actually, that's all those things that can make some people feel uncomfortable because we have been taught that that's probably not right and that we're entitled to choose what we want and not be taken and, you know what I mean, all those types of things, but I think that might be half the problem, that we, have lost sight of the fact that in these roles that we play, if we're in a heterosexual relationship and we're having sex with a man, it is about us receiving them, which means that we do have to be submissive.
Sure, you can jump on top and you know, be a little bit more energetic if you want to. Ultimately, you still have to receive them and there is nothing really that turns you on more than actually having a man actually sort of, take you in his masculinity and hold you in that way. And that is what we want because we want to feel safe and we want to feel that all embodied love that comes from that sensation
that's the container that they can hold for us. And so, it's really interesting because I think I was very fortunate that I was always sure that I knew what I wanted when I had sex. There was never a time in any of my relationships where I didn't say, what about me?
I need this. And so I feel like as a result of that, I always understood that the journey towards me receiving pleasure involved me needing to be present. In the state of union that we were in, I still to this day contemplate that having an orgasm is like going into a meditative process, and that requires sometimes practice.
So some women have just forgotten that. Pleasuring themselves and practicing coming to an orgasm actually helps them to remember what it is that they need to get there with their partners. Can I ask Sam,
[00:21:25] Dr.Thea: because I think that's quite amazing that you've always had that connection with your own pleasure.
Yes. Can you, if it's not too personal, tell us about how you came to have that?
[00:21:35] Sam: Yeah, I just
[00:21:36] Dr.Thea: Was it with a man or was it, did you discover
[00:21:38] Sam: self pleasure when you were younger? Yeah, absolutely, through masturbation and being told actually by this Sex ed teacher at school. Actually, I think she was just our class teacher.
She told us to go home and look at ourselves to get a mirror. I know, I think about it sometimes. I mean, that is amazing. Yeah, I know. I'm, like, quite old and that happened. And I remember her talking about it. She brought tampons in. All the class were flinging tampons around the room. It was very funny shooting them, the boys were.
She was telling us about it and she said, So everyone should go home tonight and get a mirror and have a look at what's there and just explore and just see what it feels like. And I remember that was the first point that I thought, okay, I must have really sort of thought, I mean, she might, I don't know, maybe it was not in the syllabus, but that's what she said.
And it wasn't weird or anything. It might sound weird as I'm saying it, but it definitely wasn't. Do you know what I mean? and so I think from there, I then just started to have that relationship with myself, which meant that when I had my first relationship, I probably didn't have an orgasm, and I remember thinking, that's a bit boring, I think I want more, and so I was pretty sure that the next time that we had sex, I said, it really helps me if I'm touched here, or if I can touch at the same time, does that make sense?
And then, I think that's just carried on. And I would say in that, that there definitely was a point where I felt shame around masturbation because I was, uh, went to Catholic school and I, yeah, that's an interesting one. I think it stops a lot of women because we're told that that exploration of our own body is something that's naughty and not right.
But I, I feel like lust for life starts with. The idea of do we have a lust for life and sexual energy, which is lust of life. It's a sacral chakra. It is actually creativity. It's actually where it all comes from.
That's it. If you don't have an yearning, if you don't look outside and go, wow, that looks great. Good and joyful and juicy then there's not much flowing. And so how do we get there? We've got to cultivate that.
[00:23:32] Dr.Thea: It's really interesting I also think in this might be wrong But like having that knowledge of your own pleasure very early in your sexual life Would be a great protector against shitty sexual encounters consent Yeah.
Almost. That's right. Because if you know what you want, you're less likely to be that kind of just, well I'll just go along with it because I'm not really sure what, you know. Well I
[00:23:56] Sam: definitely didn't have, if I had sex with someone who it wasn't good, I definitely said no. We won't do that again. And I did, I was fortunate.
I got married quite young, so I didn't have to have many of those encounters, but you know, I did get married young. I've been married for 25 years next year. And you know, my husband and I are still very sexually attracted to each other and have sex, I think, quite regularly. Not three times a week, just so everyone knows, just to be clear.
But, you know, I definitely hope that we have sex once a week. And that sounds a little bit like I'm saying it in a chore, but to a certain degree, I do like to do that. I've talked to you about it before. I think it helps me to stay juicy. I think it helps, um,, My vagina. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I tell myself.
No, I think you're
[00:24:40] Dr.Thea: right. And I think exactly as you say, like if we think about the way women's desire works, which is that it tends to be responsive rather than spontaneous, meaning we respond to. The emotional cues to the sense of connection to touch in other parts of our body, all of those things.
scheduling sex on a certain day, week makes perfect sense.
[00:25:01] Sam: we did lunchtime sex. That was a really important stage of our life where I realized I wasn't able to be noisy. And so I don't get much pleasure if I can't make a noise. I find it's just like. I just find, I just at the end feel a bit like I have to hold it in because I find that sex is like an emotional release.
It's the best thing for your nervous system. It is. Ever. Yeah. Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I cry. And so, yeah, we used to have lunchtime sex dates, which is handy because my husband worked in the barracks just across the road and he would come back and I would sometimes be waiting in the bed having sort of.
Primed myself, right? But I think that's the key, you know, that's what I'm saying and and
[00:25:42] Dr.Thea: it sounds so It sounds very unromantic But for so many women myself included I probably don't even want to have sex until I'm actually having sex Yeah like it's often takes quite a while to actually feel that sense of real just Surrender and being in the moment and then it is wonderful And enjoyable and a massive nervous system wide release.
but sometimes it, I don't want to say you have to. force it to get there, but you go through the motions to get there,
[00:26:10] Sam: which might involve
[00:26:11] Dr.Thea: the date for sex. Well,
[00:26:12] Sam: that's the and this would be interesting to talk on from a science point of view, because I've often thought about that, the point at which you, begin not really feeling, you're sort of there and you can just sort of go, no, no, no, no, no, do you know what I mean?
And even when they're touching like erogenous zones, you can sort of be like, oh, you know, just too quick, too quick. But you're just there. But there's a turning point, isn't there, where the vulva starts to have a bit more blood, blood going to it. I'm not very good on what's actually happening, but maybe you can talk on that.
Is there an actual point that is the turning point, as this woman talked about in her book?
[00:26:44] Dr.Peta: I think for me it's has less to do with my vulva and more to do with my head. Like where you're like, yeah, but again, it's probably about the right stimulation.
And then you're like, oh. Okay, I've got a body, right? I can get out of my head and stop thinking about the laundry list of things I have to do. But that to me is the turning point, like paying attention to my body. And I think that it requires that practice of just being present, noticing your body, feeling the sensations, rather than in your head.
Like, I think that is the main thing for women. Like it's a head game. Glennon Doyle always talks about the
[00:27:18] Dr.Thea: ticker tape. you know, they're like bar that goes along under the news with all the other things. She's like, the ticker tape is always
[00:27:24] Sam: there.
So in regards to her relationship, cause she's in a relationship with a woman. And does she say that still? Cause I'm always fascinated by that. Cause sometimes I wonder if I had sex with a woman, would she know what to do?
So therefore it would be a little bit easier, know, in that whole kind of process, because a woman would understand the time it takes. because a man can be so on, I have to say, darling, please remember I'm not as ready as you. I always say that at the beginning, unless I'm like, okay, we're on a quick one.
But otherwise I'm like dying. Just please remember. I'm not as ready as you. I'm going to take some time. Can we take time? And I
[00:27:56] Dr.Peta: think when you think about you, like, with the lunchtime sex, like preparing, that's awesome. And like, for many of the perimenopausal women who are coming, or menopausal women who actually may have the time, the kids are out of the house or they're older, like actually, I find that actually quite, quite helpful.
beautiful and romantic to think about like readying yourself like getting your having your bath and putting your oils on and getting your lingerie and like whatever you're going to wear lighting your candles like actually it is bringing that ritual and sacredness back to this active connection.
And doing that once every whatever it is for you is like so much more beautiful and meaningful and amazing than this expectation of I'm having to have sex every three times a week. And I think It's kind of like junk food sex versus, three course meal at a French restaurant. Yes,
[00:28:50] Dr.Thea: degustations. Yes, and you can only, and like, exactly,
[00:28:53] Dr.Peta: degustations. the other helpful concept is brakes and accelerators and talking about libido.
So think about it like a car and the accelerators, the things that turn you on, they're the things that go on the accelerator.
And then the brakes though, can be. Probably often more important for women and they're things like how stressed you are, like, what are the kids doing?
[00:29:15] Sam: Hearing a child come
[00:29:17] Dr.Peta: home.
[00:29:17] Sam: Yes, or
[00:29:18] Dr.Peta: the steps like coming towards the door. body image or feeling disconnected to oneself or trauma or previous bad experience.
Yes, relationship, which is also something to bear in mind. Like, Most of the time it is just all those other things, but is it, that this isn't the right relationship? Which often I'll have people come in and they're thinking again, it's my fault, my libido. But then you dig down and you're like, you don't even like the person.
Like you're, this is not a relationship that your body's telling you, right? So it's like thinking about all of those breaks and how can we remove some of the pressure from the brakes? And then I think for partners to understand what your brakes are is like so great because they can be like, Oh, well, I can do the things.
I can pick the child up. I can take the kid to their grandmothers for the afternoon so that you've got time. If that's what you're worried about, I can clean the kitchen, I can make dinner, whatever. And then all of a sudden you don't have the brakes anymore. And you're just, Foot to the, pedal to the metal.
You can
[00:30:16] Sam: go. It's fascinating how, how sexy it is when someone is actually doing some acts of service for you and you know that they're doing it because they actually want to be intimate with you. and that's that whole courtship idea. Which I think is so lost in our society these days.
But um, we can also court ourselves by actually thinking, what do I need to actually help me to feel more lust for life. So buy yourself flowers, a bit like that lady we were talking about in the last podcast, you know, actually find that that lust for life by buying flowers.
Finding the things that make you feel juicy every day. And then your partner will go, Oh, I think that might work for her. I think that's a nice thing.
[00:30:59] Dr.Peta: And those acts of service allow someone to surrender. I don't have to do that. I didn't have to carry the weight of the world. I can just be in this moment.
that's an incredible thing. And it's a huge barrier when we feel like we can't do that. So for the men, that's important. And
[00:31:17] Sam: also, do you think that Sometimes, and I think it's very common for women. We don't actually know what we need, so we don't know what feels good. you know, I, I remember this time and time again, in tricky points in my marriage where my husband says, what do you want?
I don't know what I want. it would be so frustrating to him because I couldn't actually verbalize what it is that I needed. And I remember sort of just. It's this frustration in the not being able to voice what I needed because I couldn't really contemplate it and his frustration not being able to give me what I want.
I just feel like that.
[00:31:52] Dr.Peta: Do you think you didn't know what you wanted or you knew what you wanted, you just couldn't say it?
[00:31:57] Sam: I feel like we can actually get to, there are stages where we are disconnected to our own needs because we've been doing externally so much.
We've sort of given away so much. So I used to feel one of those things was, and it's definitely around having the smaller children. It was just so hard for me to want to have sex.
Cause I felt like I was always being touched by someone and someone on a breast and you're exhausted and that I remember that feeling of just, I've given so much. I just can't actually. Give you anything, you know, and I can see that that would feel like rejection.
So I would have to contemplate that, but I feel in that moment, I just didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know who I was. You kind of lose yourself sometimes in the roles.
[00:32:37] Dr.Thea: but I think what you say, there is a sentiment that so many of us have, which is we're giving, giving, giving, giving, giving.
And then someone asks us for one more thing, which might be sex. And you're like, I can't give anymore. I can't do it. And so actually looking at that and thinking, okay, well, Where can we give to ourselves like where can we start to take a little bit of ourself back so that we have the space then to open up in those other areas and I think for so many women that idea of surrender and that idea of receiving is so uncomfortable.
Even like when you were saying Peter, like, if your partner took The kid out for the afternoon and you have the afternoon to yourself, you know, like often I will talk about that with patients and say, well, yeah, so why don't you do that? And then, then you can have the afternoon to yourself. What would you do?
Like, what would you love to do? it's not something they can easily come to, or they would say, I would tidy the house or something like that. Yeah.
[00:33:36] Sam: That, that like feeling like you just cannot stop. And I think that happens in the active sex too, I was thinking as you're talking that sometimes. You know, I remember watching ages ago, it was a long time ago.
There was something on, is it goop? You know, and, um, there was a man and he had to just touch one part of the clitoris and he was only allowed to touch the one part and then the woman would just receive and she was meant to just lay there and just receive.
And I remember thinking, wow, that is amazing. Brilliant. Because that's really hard and also liberating because what if you were allowed to lay there and just say, okay, make me aroused and not feel bad or feel like you have to do anything because let's be honest, you really don't, they're happy doing that, but we have this strange idea that we've got to do some kind of performance as well.
And actually, I think. That was very liberating moment for me to just go, Oh yeah, that's exactly it. That's a very beautiful moment to just lie and receive and actually go deeper into that state of receiving the touch and the pleasure and to say, what about here? What about there? That's why I really like, can I talk about the moon centers for a moment?
Yes. Which we won't go into in full details, but in yoga, there's a concept of moon centers, which are a bit like having moon chakras, which are energetic chakras. Parts in the body and that women have these in our body and they sort of add to the way that we change our emotions So regularly, but one of the great things I really like about it Is there's a sort of sequence that you can go through Where you touch or stroke these different moon centers like the nape of the neck and the arm the inner thigh They're all touched before the actual act of intercourse and it's like the most perfect foreplay and I just always think that if, if we could just practice a bit of sort of working in that sort of tantric capacity, um, and thinking about Tantra, but if we were just to sit with our partner naked eye to eye and some breathing. Not
[00:35:41] Dr.Peta: alternate nostril breathing. I know you love alternate.
[00:35:45] Sam: I was going to say that, but it's all so much detail, but I think doing alternate nostril breathing regulates whether you're on or kind of off. So the right nostril makes you more, more aroused, more quick. And it's like having a cup of coffee and the left nostril will slow everything down and help you to connect. So they're connected to the nervous system. I think it's the anticipation of seeing someone naked before you, like watching them, watching that you're doing something, knowing why you're doing that, and actually eye gazing.
Eye gazing is very, yeah, so powerful.
[00:36:15] Dr.Peta: There's a lot of scientific evidence around eye gazing. Yeah, oxytocin and just that feeling deepening that feeling of connection. It doesn't take long. It's
[00:36:25] Sam: an opening of the heart. We're looking into each other's eyes and effectively, we're really just connecting heart to heart.
So if you did that, and then after doing that for a few minutes, you were then touching each of the moon centers, you'd be pretty game.
[00:36:38] Dr.Peta: Yeah. Brooke, who's one of our physios here, she talks about spending that time to get into your body.
And I think so important as women, as we talked about and just even doing like cow on your bed and like moving your pelvis and feeling that flow of energy to that part of your body. I remember being like a yoga retreat place and we went, we did this yoga class. I don't know. There was like, 40 people in the room and it was this just, I don't even know what the aim of it was.
But there was a lot of like hip gyrations, pelvic gyrations and whatever. I remember because I think I had a patient's mother who was randomly behind me in the yoga studio and I felt it like a bit vulnerable. Anyway, we left at the end and my friend who I was with was like, Oh my God, that was like a group orgasm class.
One more minute and everyone would have been having orgasms, but mainly because everyone was just. Yeah. Moving and connecting to their breath and their pelvis and whatever. And it's just like getting in their body and being in the moment. And I think we can all spend that couple of minutes doing that.
And I think one other thing I was going to say about you with your babies and that I think there's a season, there's seasons in life, right? And when we have babies, we shouldn't have any pressure on ourselves in that time to be having sex until we're ready to be doing that. And you know, times of our lives where we are going through difficult emotional things, having a libido isn't a problem.
It's a sign of the fact that we're going through difficult emotional things. We don't need to put pressure on ourselves to have sex. In addition to that, it's how can we help to find more balance and space and joy and connection in our lives so that then that will come back, you know? And again, menopause transition, changes in our bodies, all of those things, there'll be times that naturally you might be not wanting to have sex as much and that's okay because whatever your libido is, it's normal.
If you're in a long term relationship responsive desire is the way to go and it's not inferior to, to spontaneous desire and there can be actually so much joy, pleasure, meaning, connection that can come from setting it up like we've kind of talked about.
[00:38:42] Sam: And that's about being in a relationship.
Yeah. And I, I feel like that's, that's really important. One of the key points is what we're talking about here. And that will be different if you're a woman who's listening to this and you're not in a long term relationship and you're actually going through the process of. Dating and dating apps. I really understand having spoken to a few of my friends and one of my daughters who is doing this, just the journey that that is, because that in itself is actually so different to how I met my husband and how we used to do things and it's actually hard on the nervous system, I think, because there's so much distrust in these apps and the way in which we meet people.
So, I was contemplating. How hard it would be for me if I had to go out and find a man again and actually have to have sex with a person for the first time. And now that I'm 50 and my body has gone through many changes. And so I just want to really say that, that again is. is part of the fear that would be creating that contraction in the body, which might be why, you know, you don't have that desire.
[00:39:46] Dr.Peta: Although you do are helped by dopamine, oxytocin and all the fun new things. Yeah.
[00:39:52] Sam: Yeah. it's all so linked and I feel like what I've noticed in my life is libido just goes up and down And it just definitely hasn't been the same.
And that my mind has so much to do with the level of libido, because if I was to sit here and take my mind back to when my husband and I first met and start thinking about, you know, that time, or, you know, when we had sex in the kitchen somewhere, I would immediately start to feel aroused, but they're the things that work, you know, and.
I've never really been interested in watching porn or any of those types of things, but I find that my mind is the best porn. You know, it can do what I need to do. It can help me to get to that place and to find that, but that's from real memories of times that I was aroused, which I'm not sure we really talk about very much.
You know, we just sort of go. Do it now in this moment. But they're good things to draw on those positive experiences that you've had can help you to remember and help your body to remember how it is that it can be open again.
[00:40:52] Dr.Peta: And remember each other as those very sexual sensual beings which you still are amongst the busyness and the changes of life that are now.
Yeah. And
[00:41:02] Sam: I, yeah, I think you're right because our husbands, our partners, they change too. As we get older, they have their insecurities about their bodies as well as they get older. And I think we forget that sometimes we're very caught on what will they think of me? They think the same about themselves.
I think that's quite humbling to think about. So we're all in it together.
[00:41:22] Dr.Peta: So any last minute tips, ideas? Is there any,
[00:41:27] Sam: any like, what about libido foods? Oh oysters? Oysters are really good. They really are very good. I think oysters are very good.
[00:41:36] Dr.Peta: I've had so many patients who've talked about this and they've been to doctors who say, have two glasses of wine and just, I know. And just, and you're like, no. Like, that's just numbing things. It's just terrible advice. Yeah.
[00:41:49] Dr.Thea: One thing I would say that Brooke would want me to say is lube.
Lube, lube, lube, lube, lube. Yes, yeah. Because, and also Emily Nagoski as well, Emily talks about arousal non concordance with women, which is for the majority of women, well over 50 percent of women, the degree of vaginal lubrication that we have is not correlated to our degree of arousal.
So we can be very, very aroused and not well lubricated. Um, and so using lubricant regardless is great because it increases the sensations in that part of the body. Even if you don't really need it or feel that you need it, it increases the pleasure. It increases the sensations. It draws your attention to that part of your body, which like you said, can help us to be in our body and help us to really cotton on to the arousal That we're wanting to experience.
[00:42:39] Dr.Peta: And also like the act of putting it on and things like that. And the kinds that we would recommend if you're not using condoms, you know, not a water based lube. Um, so we really love this brand called Olive and Bee, which is like organic olive oil and beeswax, which is so, so good and really nourishing.
If you use it with condoms, it can sometimes degrade The latex, we would recommend that. And then some silicon based ones can be very good or even just like coconut oil, olive oil, those kinds of things too.
[00:43:07] Dr.Thea: And for postmenopausal women, I think if there's any troubles with, pain or vaginal dryness using some vaginal oestrogen.
[00:43:13] Sam: Yeah, it
[00:43:14] Dr.Thea: can be very
[00:43:15] Sam: helpful. And yeah, one of my last little story for this is I went to a course and one of the homeworks that we were given was to go home, get lube and just see the difference that it made. Did it make a lot of difference? It was on a, I was learning about birth actually, but it was on a birth course and she was literally saying, Who in here is not using lube?
That was exactly what she said and I was at the back calling down like, I don't believe it. And um, yeah, so we went home and got it. My husband thought it was the best course I've ever done. Um, and my other top tip is I also use lube that has some stimulation in it
[00:43:49] Dr.Peta: and
[00:43:49] Sam: I find that very helpful.
So I have that there.
[00:43:51] Dr.Peta: Is it like a cinnamony kind of thing? Yeah, that's right. That one from, yes. Yes. Yeah, and we haven't used it together. We bought it at the same time as a lingerie shop. Anyway, that's a story for another time. But anyway, so
[00:44:05] Sam: I really recommend that because I find that that can be helpful sometimes.
[00:44:10] Dr.Peta: You can also get, there is another brand by a really clever doctor that I went to uni with. We will add it in the show notes. I can't remember it off the top of my head right now, she's got one with testosterone in it and one with actually Viagra in the lube. So it does have that, I guess, blood stimulating, effect. So we'll put all of the links to those things in the show notes we're very late for our patients now. So, find us at our Instagram verawellness. com.au or send us an email at hello at verawellness.com. and we will see you next week. Thank you.
[00:44:48] Sam: Bye.
DISCLAIMER:
This podcast is for information and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
