Episode 29: Holistic support for IVF with Elysia Humphries
Going through IVF can feel like an emotional rollercoaster – from navigating the medical procedures to handling the stress and uncertainty of the process.
But what if there were natural ways to support your body and mind during this journey?
In this episode, Sam sits down again with Vera Wellness naturopath Elysia Humphries to explore a holistic approach to IVF.
They discuss:
🍃 What really impacts IVF success – and why egg and sperm health matter more than you think.
🍃 The most effective supplements and herbs for fertility support (and the ones that might not be worth your money).
🍃 How stress affects IVF outcomes and simple ways to keep your nervous system regulated.
🍃 The importance of feeling supported – how finding the right doctor, team, and care plan can make all the difference.
If you or someone you love is on an IVF journey, this episode is packed with insights to help you feel more empowered, informed, and supported every step of the way.
We’d love to hear your thoughts. Send us an email, leave a comment on Instagram, or share this episode with someone who needs it.
Additional resources:
🎙️ Episode 25: Preparing your body for pregnancy with naturopath Elysia Humphries.
We would love to hear from you.
If you have any questions about you’d like us to answer on a future episode of the podcast, please email them to hello@verawellness.com.au or contact us on Instagram @verawellness.com.au.
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Episode transcript:
E29: Holistic support for IVF with Elysia Humphries
Sam: [00:00:00] So welcome everyone to [00:01:00] another episode of Women of the Well, I am back today doing another special episode with Elysia Humphries, who's our, Vera. naturopath it's nice cause I'm at home today. Normally I'm not at home, but I'm at home. So we're both at home having this chat and today we've come back, to have a chat together.
And today we're going to look at holistic naturopathic care during IVF. So that's our specific title for today. And really we're just going to go through and I was just saying before, we'll just have a little riff about everything I'll pick Elysia's brains as we go through this, and we'll just really get to that place where we can have a deeper understanding of how we can begin to support ourselves and how we can find the right care for ourselves during this time. If we find ourselves in this situation, first of all, hello, how are you and where are you in your cycle? I was thinking this because we talked about it at the beginning of the last
Elysia: We did [00:02:00] um, luteal phase, so yeah, sort of post ovulation, which was energetic and then a bit more, a bit more chill this week post and, on top of that, just post cyclone recovery.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Elysia: Everyone in Queensland did a lot of preparation and now we're all just and de stressing. So yeah, it's probably taking precedence to that at the moment.
Sam: that's right. I'm in the same phase actually. I'm day 17 and you're absolutely right. there's that sort of coming down, which our nervous systems are recovering from the high, high anxiety that we went through.
Elysia: Mm.
Sam: so I'm glad that we made time today and thank you. Now, Maybe you can begin by saying, maybe you've got an experience of someone or a couple or an individual that you've worked with who you've started going through fertility and then they've gone on to a journey of IVF and how that looked and how it was that you supported them at that time. Yeah.
Elysia: I see people, I [00:03:00] see individuals going through IVF with donor sperm and I see same sex. using donor And I see heterosexual couples using their own eggs and sperm or using donor eggs or donor sperm. There's so many ways these days to have a baby. And I think it's amazing that we do have the beautiful technology of IVF, although no one really wants to have their baby.
You know, it can often be a really big move for a lot of people to accept the fact that they might need some medical help. But, there are a lot of wonderful options for people when they haven't been able to conceive naturally. So what I do with people, I mean, I kind of see Two situations that people having IVF.
I might have a patient that I've already seen for preconception care and then they've decided because there might be a timeline or they just want to be pregnant quicker or it's not working that they will pursue IVF. And we do all our preconception care, which you, and I did a great [00:04:00] episode on a few weeks ago about some of the things of prepping and getting ready and getting your egg and sperm health ready.
for joining me. And then I also see people that, are sent to me from different doctors around the country that have already been having IVF without seeing a naturopath, but their IVF is not working, so they might not be um, making embryos or their egg quality or their sperm quality isn't, actually at a level that they need to pursue IVF and the doctors are like, look, I think you've reached this part of, we have to have a break and work on that.
And I'll maybe see some of the people that are many years into an IVF journey who unfortunately need some more help to make that IVF work. So they're the kind of people that I'm seeing.
Sam: when you, think about that sort of first point of meeting them, what's, some of the first things that you're contemplating? Hmm.
Elysia: I go through a big screening process, but I think the first thing is just to sort of. You know, from a heart space is just to acknowledge that IVF is medical [00:05:00] intervention, you know, and, and some people are quite anxious about that, that it really is, I like to call it the medicalisation of the sacred and intimate act.
You know, most people have intercourse and make a baby. That's how they thought it would go. and a lot of, people um, might be have some blocks or be sad that they actually need help or psychologically feel like their bodies might be a bit broken or have let them down. So I just like to acknowledge that I can't fix that for people, but I just like to say a lot of people feel that way.
If you're feeling stressed and a bit broken, it's okay. This really sucks. But the positives are we have these phenomenal. technologies, plus I have a lot of ancient wisdom and herbs, plus new research on supplements and things to assist. So Yeah.
signology, it's a tough call for a lot of people. And then to go through a process of many factors that I'm screening for.
So we might look at [00:06:00] environmental factors. Like I might see a man who's a tradie and he might have exposure like mining and have heavy metal exposure or diesel mechanic and be exposed to a lot of different, petrels and fumes and volatile chemicals or might have, you know, have a woman with autoimmune disease.
So we just take a really comprehensive medical history essentially, with my detective hat on. We look at, from a micro perspective. If they've had IVF already, if they've had sperm tests and egg and sperm health, or if their eggs have been fertilizing and they're good quality. And then from a macro perspective, we look at diet and nutrition.
There's many things that can help egg quality and our embryo quality and sperm quality through diet and nutrition. And we look at stress levels and sleep.
Nutrient levels. Like we mentioned in our preconception podcast, things like vitamin D deficiency can really affect this fertilisation rate and low protein in your diet can affect embryo quality.
So we do go through a lot of things and [00:07:00] I guess it depends what stage. If someone's just about to try IVF for the first time, there's basic levels of support that I provide. And if someone's coming to me that's had years of it and it's not working, I swear I'd pull everything apart to a great level and really try and look under every rock and
Sam: You sort of do forensic
Elysia: Oh, yeah
Sam: naturopathic work.
Elysia: Yeah, it's like um, and i've got all their history and all their notes from us It's Yeah.
my brain hurts by the end of it, but it's a fabulous thing It's nothing better than when someone sends me the photo of their new baby.
Like that's the best job ever, you
Sam: Hmm.
Elysia: Yeah,
Sam: I have goosebumps.
Elysia: Yeah.
Sam: So one of the things that you talked about, which might be a good place to start is um, so sometimes you might get someone who's coming to you who has PCOS.
Elysia: Yeah Yeah
Sam: in that circumstance, maybe they've been told to go down that IVF route. And what are some of the things that you're looking at if that happens?
Elysia: Yeah, well, there's a few [00:08:00] things to look at with that. Sometimes women are sort of given a PCS diagnosis if they've maybe just recently come off the contraceptive pill, and their ovaries can have a lot of follicles on it and look a bit like PCOS, but it can be what's called post pill PCOS, and it'll actually settle down, and given time, they'll start ovulating again or given some sleep.
So sometimes, you know, their body hasn't had enough time to recalibrate and they're told, you know, go straight for IVF. Now, look, if you're potentially over 35 or you're more towards 40, that might be a sensible thing to advise. But I think PCOS is one of the easiest things as a naturopath to treat and to support in getting someone having a regular cycle.
So it does annoy me when I see a woman that has been maybe pushed into like a cookie cutter IVF company and they're just sort of pushed straight to IVF without being told about their [00:09:00] other options. Fair enough if someone's been trying for years and they've had a lot of support and their cycle isn't coming back then absolutely go for IVF.
But, some women, all they need is some medical support with something called ovulation induction. So with our doctors here at Vera, we support that. And they're given a medication to help their eggs pop out and to help them ovulate. And then they're just, their cycle is timed and, you know, measure hormones and measure their ultrasound, measure their ovulation.
And they just go home and have intercourse. Um, This medication is making them ovulate and that can be all you need. So that, that's still part of what's called ART or assisted reproductive technologies, but it's not IVF, which is a hell of a lot more expensive and invasive. So that's a really great start for someone with irregular cycles or who isn't ovulating is to start with either ovulation induction or IVF.
If they haven't, see a naturopath because there's some really good herbs that can [00:10:00] get a woman with PCOS or sometimes secondary amenorrhea, so they don't have periods at all, ovulating, given, given three to six months, we can make a huge difference. And alongside ovulation induction for PCOS, There's supplements that like NAC or inositol that enhance the ovulation that have been have been shown to, like NAC has been shown to enhance the effectiveness of ovulation induction medication by like 50%.
you know, I can give herbs. I only give herbs if I'm talking to the doctor closely because we don't want to overstimulate someone's ovaries, but there's herbs we can use at the same time to kind of pump it up as well. So. Yeah.
I think, you know, if you're a woman who's listening and you've got PCOS and you're really irregular cycles and the thing is, if you only have a period every three or four months, there's not much chance to get pregnant then because you're not ovulating or you're very irregularly.
So that's why these women are like, Oh my god, can we hurry up already? And they want to, they want some support. But I [00:11:00] would certainly look at you know, naturopathic care for ovulation and or ovulation induction before I went straight to IVF in that scenario. And there's many other cases when people just actually just need IVF.
But that's a particular bugbear when someone's, you know, just pushed into an IVF cycle that they might not have needed.
Sam: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's good. yeah, thinking of that sort of that beginning stage there. And then what's who are those next people and what, at that stage where someone has come and they said, we're about to start an IVF cycle or we're about to go on that IVF journey, what are the types of things that initially you're working with them to.
Yeah. I don't really want to use the word control, but I guess it's kind of, what are the things that they can do to support themselves physically, mentally in order to best be ready for that?
Elysia: Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Well it's, it's good preconception care, so it's egg and sperm health support. [00:12:00] So I put people on supplements and then I also look at diet and lifestyle and stress and a whole bunch of other things as well. But there's a number of supplements with really good quality evidence on them to support, like I'll talk about a couple off the top of my head.
Things like. Omega 3, so, which is in fish oil and grass fed meat, but particularly in seafood. The higher concentrations of that in people's bodies have been associated with women with better IVF outcomes, like helping the embryos implant. And a lot of us are really deficient in Omega 3 because our diets are more meat and vegetable oil based.
It's higher in Omega 6. You know, Ubiquinol helps embryo implantation rates and helps egg quality. There are supplements like vitamin E, which might help endometrial thickness and help plump up the lining of the uterus. There's beautiful herbs like peony and perilla that actually help the immune system. So, some women [00:13:00] make great embryos and they've got great eggs and the couple makes a good embryo, but they're transferring all these embryos that we've got in the freezer into the uterus and they're not sticking. So if they've got good embryos and they're not sticking, there are things we can do to modulate the immune system and what's happening in the ureus.
so that's just a couple off the top of my head. There's many more. And for men, there's a lot to help the DNA quality of, the sperm. so the supplements we look like are mostly antioxidant to help the DNA in the sperm. Because the egg, once she's fertilized has to clean up any bad bits of DNA or broken bits or dodgy bits from the sperm and it takes a lot of energy.
And sometimes the, embryos once they're fertilized will give up in the first few days because the egg had so much work to do. So like if your partner you know, might have workplace chemical exposures or renovating household. too much coffee or smoking [00:14:00] alcohol, that sort of thing. Or sometimes the guy's the most healthy fellow ever, but he still might have DNA damage in his sperm.
So, we work on, on that because whatever we can do to make the eggs job easier will help with better quality. embryos. So we start with that, but then, you know, we look at diet, lifestyle and stress a lot. And there's very specific things about that as well that we do. Hmm.
Sam: yeah, absolutely. So this is what I'm thinking, because if we just even touch on, just what a woman has to go through. in order to do this IVF process. Like I have not been fortunate enough not to have to do this, but when I've sat and listened to someone tell me what they've had to do, I've just found it horrifying.
It just seems like, you know, you're I know that you really want this. And so you have that incentive to do it, but you're still inflicting quite a lot on your body and putting your body [00:15:00] through very unnatural states.
Elysia: the amount of hormones someone is on is, many, many, many, many times over what your body naturally produces, because they really want to, instead of when you naturally ovulate, you produce mostly one egg a month and then um, is trying to get out. 6, 10, 15 eggs, like it depends on your age as to how many you'll get, but you're on a lot of hormones to make that happen, and women feel, either feel amazing or they just feel terrible, like everyone responds differently to the medications the hormones, so I do have a lot of women coming to me between cycles or if they're having a break to the break.
So, yeah. Just want to detox because they're like, I feel fluidy or I've gained weight or I feel dreadful. Like I just feel, I really feel the impact of the hormones. And we do a lot of work just on, diet and digestion and liver support to get them feeling good again. But it's, yeah, it's a lot.
You've got to inject yourself and have anesthetic and have a needle to pick up your [00:16:00] eggs and then have a transfer process to put the embryo in. So. Fantastic technology. So through and So grateful, but it's a lot to personally go through. Yeah.
Sam: So do you think that one of the biggest challenges aside to doing that to yourself physically that you're going through on this IVF journey is actually the stress.
Elysia: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's so stressful for people. Most people get teary or they've gone through a lot. They've got a big story, you know, And. We know that reducing stress is really important because your body's response to the hormones, to the what's called FSH, the follicle stimulating hormone that they give you to make your eggs grow and to get more for IBF.
The more relaxed you are, the better you respond. However, that's an oxymoron. It's very hard to say to someone, uh, don't be stressed, like just chill
Sam: Yeah.
Elysia: because it's not very relaxing. But, think just acknowledging [00:17:00] and acknowledging it's full on. It's okay to feel the way you're feeling. That's half of it.
And whether someone needs to, you know, have a really just offload chat to their friends, their partner, a counsellor and just, just realize that it's okay to feel overloaded by it all, but also to find, your happy space within all the crazy. so whether whatever that is, looks like for you, what makes you forget all your troubles for a little while and feel super happy and in the moment.
And do that at the moment, like that's important, like whether that's walking, cuddling your dog or um, walking by the beach or. meditation, yoga, or if you're not into that, what is it? is. it reading, reading a book? Um, Whatever the hobby is, the exercise, whatever. Singing in a choir, just do something for you.
Cause often people are working so hard to pay for it cause it's so expensive. And they're very stressed and there's a lot of medical appointments so they can kind of forget about their hobbies or their interests. Or they [00:18:00] might think, Oh, I shouldn't exercise too hard cause that's bad for me. But like anything that gets you feeling amazing, helps you to feel amazing, I think is so important because the more we can be in a little bit of a happy, relaxed state and just find some joy in amongst all the crazy that's very important because the body likes to, the body loves to be in a more relaxed state sort of conceive.
That's the science behind our nervous systems. The more calm we are, the easier it is for our hormones to listen to each other and to talk and to be heard. But having said that, if you have times where you're stressed and you're, Feeling very emotional, then that's completely valid too. It's Just to remember to find something
to
Sam: And I think you're right. It's, it's actually more stressful sometimes to be told that you need
to relax. And I, feel like that's, it's such a lot of pressure on someone because I'm trying to be relaxed. I'm trying not to let stress affect this. and that's very hard to then they're trying to do all these different things and all the different things become overwhelming, which just [00:19:00] adds to the load that overload.
So, I mean, are you allowed to take relaxing supplements when you're going through IVF?
Elysia: Yeah, yeah, I do use a lot of herbs for stress or adrenal glands, like for energy and resilience and things if they need it. Yeah, it just, it depends during the stimulation, like when they're actually in a cycle using hormones, there's certain herbs like we shouldn't have, and I always communicate to whatever doctor someone's working with what they're on because we need to be really safe.
But Yeah,most of the time. Herbs to calm the nervous system are good, but there's just so much stress going on, I think herbs are very useful, but also, we talked about it in our preconception episode, making more, a bit more space in your lifestyle and adjusting your boundaries with work and just trying to have a little bit more time for yourself wherever you can is good, but also like if you're angry and you're grumpy and you're over it and you're feeling sad, like just to be expressed that don't keep it in. You [00:20:00] know, let it out.
Sam: absolutely. Like when you're angry, be angry and actually have a moment of bashing something or, you know, and one of the things that occurred to me when you're talking was, of course I'm imagining so say you've been trying to get pregnant for a long time, and this has been a journey that you've been on, and then you've gone down this IVF path, imagining that then some of the intimate relationship that we might've had with our partner kind of feels.
Well, first of all, you would have been doing that so medically when you were trying to, you know, work with probably ovulation and all those other things. So you've been like, really, we must have sex now, which of course kind of hinders some of the passion. And now it must, I don't know, it must feel somewhat superfluous and you, it must be a real journey for some of those couples to, Build another way of enjoying themselves.
Elysia: Yeah. it's a real test on relationships going through any medical challenge, [00:21:00] especially of fertility. challenge because a lot of our self worth might be associated with can we make babies and that's what we wanted but we can't do it. So I say to people just remember why you fell in love what you like about each other and are you having any date nights or quality time together and that's part of the treatment plan is to really to try and feel a bit more loved up and whatever your love language is to communicate that and try and Get that from each other because Yeah.
there can be a big disconnect between couples when there's been a lot of, a lot of stress and anxiety.
Absolutely. And the hormone oxytocin that we get from cuddles and love and feeling loved up is actually so beneficial for our, uh, fertility. So even just holding hands or being a bit more affectionate non sexual touch and just hanging out and having a laugh and just, just. Some lovely time where you're not thinking about any of that stuff.
Like so many couples, I'll say to them, like, are you having date nights? Do you [00:22:00] hang out? Like, and they're like, oh, hardly any time together and we're just so busy. And once they do that more, they kind of feel a bit more safe and relaxed. So I think that's part of it because a lot of the time IVF for a lot of people can be a process, a really long time.
So there'll be, and there's times where. If it's possible timeline wise have a break. , sometimes people just need a break. They're like, I can't wait. We're going to Fiji. We're having a holiday. We can't wait. And like, that really renews them, Or, oh, we stopped all of our plan and our supplements and we had a break from a, B, F. I'm like, that's totally fine. you're over it. that's really refreshing. Sometimes if they need a break but there's a lot of ups and downs.
Sam: What I was thinking just then was, is there a story you can share of a, a joyful, couple or a single person who's been through the process that you've seen? Could you share something? Without naming anyone, obviously.
Elysia: yeah.
Sam: one of my things is that I always feel in order to get hope, you have to see that this is possible.[00:23:00]
And one of the best ways to see that it's possible is to listen to someone who's seen it happen, you know, watch the miracles and yeah. So tell us a miracle.
Elysia: Yeah, well, I had a beautiful couple that were sent to me by Thea, one of our gynecologists at Vera and They had a daughter, uh, naturally, and then they had a stillbirth of a beautiful son. They were really heartbroken. And then she found out she had, not many eggs left, and they went for IVF to try and hurry the process along, and they just weren't making babies with IVF at all.
Hardly any eggs, and his sperm had some issues, and I worked with them for quite some time, and we had lots of tears and things like that were really sad, uh, understandably. And we slowly you know, supported them and his sperm improved massively with the supplements and the diet and the things we were doing.
And then they, they [00:24:00] found this amazing kahuna massage therapist too. And they just had these, they had body work and a lot of their grief came out through touch and having an amazing massage. They had some amazing experiences just released with that, which was great.
And then we got her to the stage where her egg quality improved. She didn't get many eggs from the IVF because her egg count was really low. But they, we got his sperm to the point and her eggs to the point where they made a baby. And you know, they only had a couple of embryos, but now they have a little boy.
And I see their photos on Instagram and like I used to see them crying in my office and now they're happy and beautiful. They've completed their family and it's amazing. You know, so, so amazing. I've also worked with one woman at Vera who had all sorts of surgeries and endometriosis and infections and things.
And then IVF wasn't working for her with her eggs and she was lucky enough to be gifted a donut embryo. So Sometimes in IVF, there are extra embryos made and [00:25:00] they freeze them and people don't want to use all of them because they have completed their family. So some people gift an embryo to, you know, this woman was single, she was 47, so her own eggs weren't working.
But even these donor embryos, she'd been gifted quite a few, they weren't sticking. So, we worked, we did some vaginal microbiome testing with her and her Her microbiome was very out of whack, she had a lot of bad bugs that were causing infections and problems. And no good bacteria. And evidence shows us now that if we increase the good bacteria, the probiotics in our vagina, we will accept embryos that, that, you know, genetically normal embryos have a higher likelihood of.
Resulting in a pregnancy. We work on the microbiome in the vagina. So we did a lot of that work with her. And then, Yeah. she had a baby at 47. The last, there was like so much pressure for me, but then she had one left. And it's stuck, right? So [00:26:00] that's amazing, and look, there's, there's also sad stories where it doesn't work and people have to accept that and it's awful.
And we shed a lot of tears, but I think it's great. There's a lot of people that think they're at the end of their journey and then I'll be able to, you help them and look at a few things extra and get them to the point where our beautiful doctors can do the science and then part to make the against women come together.
And then a lot of the time. We end up with a great result, which is great, but it's, takes some time. It's a, it's a journey. Yeah. yeah. But there's lots of happy stories, which is wonderful.
Sam: Oh, that's so, that's so heartwarming. So maybe maybe what you could do is just, if there's someone listening who Is heading into that IVF or has been there for some time and is feeling stuck is feeling that nothing is working and that maybe they don't feel supported by the system that they found themselves in because I imagine that actually just feeling comfortable with who you're working with is a
Elysia: Yeah. Huge. [00:27:00] I actually do see people that change doctors fairly frequently. They might've seen two or three if they've had a long IVF journey and just get such incredible feedback when they find someone who. gets them and they just feel supported and held by, there's all sorts of doctors out there and most of them are amazing, but some of them aren't as emotionally warm or emotionally intelligent as someone would need and a bit more clinical.
And, or some people feel like, they're just being put on the same plan all the time. And the doctor hasn't thought about their case much after a long time. So. Getting a second opinion is, really important with IVF and other times it's, it's just about the number of tries. You've got to have a number of cycles and something eventually works, but you want to be with a doctor who's really thinking about why isn't this working?
What can we try differently? I think the doctors we work with, they always talking to the embryologist or they're consulting. They're peers with, incredible experience, what am I missing? And, and we all [00:28:00] like to talk to each other and review cases because if there's anything different we can do, we want to know.
So I think that's important to feel like you're with someone that's like that, but you just got to be with someone who will just keep looking and thinking about it for you. You don't feel like a number cause that is nothing worse cause this is such a personal. stressful journey, you've got to feel really well supported. If you've got a good team, it's a huge part of it.
Sam: Yeah.
Well, I guess as well, the point of having that team you know, from. Sort of when we talked about the stress of going through this process anyway, is that feeling supported, having people that understand who you can go back to. And if they're communicating with each other, then you're not having to go over and over your stories each time.
And because I imagine that would become quite exhausting as well. And so it is about that building that relationship, I guess, with someone, because I presume for you, when you've had a relationship with someone for a while, you can actually [00:29:00] really as you were saying, you know, working in that sort of in depth way, you start to really start notice what things work.
Because I was thinking from, from a sort of non natural. Path mind. Do you find some people respond better to sort of, Chinese herbs and some people respond better to, you know, Ayurvedic herbs? Or I don't know, I was thinking that. do you notice that there's a sort of difference?
Elysia: Yeah.
Like initially I'll put someone on a, on a plan of supplements and herbs and diet and things. And then and that normally takes, The other thing is that it takes three or four months to work. So if someone's coming to me and they're like, right, I've got an IBEV cycle in two weeks, I'll often say, well I can do a little bit to help you maybe like bring down inflammation, but we need more time.
So I'm not saying. stop IVF. It's just like people get better results after about four months of treatment because that's the amount of time it takes for eggs to mature and sperm take, you know, two and a half, three months to make new sperm. So we do see difference from what I'm doing to support people [00:30:00] in that three, four month, window.And Yeah. like if I'm doing stuff and it's. I always say, how many eggs did you get? Did they fertilize? Or then we review the semen analysis. So, has the sperm quality improved? Yeah.
And see if they're responding to things. And definitely change it if they're not. one thing we mentioned briefly last time, it didn't really go into was a lot of men get like just a general semen analysis, which is like measuring the count, the number of sperm, how they swim, the shape of them.
And everyone has that done that goes for IVF, but what I don't see done. All that often is an extra test called DNA fragmentation of sperm. It's called different things at different labs. Like it might be called. Scarza or Halo sperm, but essentially it's checking the head of the sperm, looks like a little tadpole with a little tail in the head of the sperm is all the DNA that the man is passing on.
And um, sometimes [00:31:00] people have had all this IVF and it's not working. And then they finally do a DNA fragmentation of sperm test, which is just an add on. It's like a hundred and something dollars to add on to a normal sperm test. And lo and behold, they've got very high levels of stress on the DNA of the sperm and like, no wonder they're not making embryos or the embryos are fertilizing, but the eggs are fertilizing, but the embryos are giving up after a few days because there's damage to the sperm DNA. And a lot of the time that can be reversed, there's really amazing herbs that are really good for an antioxidant of the sperm and, and, and supplements or a man might have a varicose vein in his testicles that's causing it to be too hot or he might be not ejaculating enough, like, to lower the damage to the sperm DNA you need to ejaculate every two or three days, like consistently all month long.
So if they're not having intercourse or he's not masturbating and they're not ejaculating that the sperm sort of sit around and get hot and damaged and things or mountain bike [00:32:00] riding or, you know, saunas and spas like testicular heat or a job where you're really, really hot. There's lots of things that can affect the DNA in the sperm, but that's a massive thing that I like to check or, or some of the doctors I work with.
Uh, send guys to me and they're like, Oh, their DNA fragmentation is way too high. We've got to get that down. Then once you've done that, send them back for IVF. So that's something that gets missed a bit, I see.
Sam: Yeah. Okay. That's so interesting. So that's a, yeah, that's great that yeah, to consider those things. Is there anything else that comes to mind that you see that people miss
Elysia: Mm. I mean, endometriosis is a huge one. like women that might not have obvious period pain or pelvic pain and they've got pretty bad endo. Um, Sometimes they'll have a laparoscopy many rounds of IVF down the track, have a, it's not the first thing they do because the best thing is just to have some IVF and see if it works.
But if some of these women having years of it and it still hasn't worked, then someone finally. checks for endo and gives them an operation and cleans out a lot of the inflammatory [00:33:00] tissue, and then I can work on herbs and supplements to support the endometriosis and bring the inflammation down and then, you know, within six months they might be pregnant.
Not always, but Yeah.that can make a big difference just to know if they've got endo because we might treat that differently and really go on an anti inflammatory treatment plan for that.
Sam: Yeah.
Elysia: Yeah.
I see that a lot And the vaginal microbiome is something that I, and the uterine microbiome is something that I really like to look at too.
As a very simple swab, you can do an at home swab, send it off to a lab here in Australia, and we get a microbiome test of the vagina, which really does mimic what's happening in the uterus a lot of the time. They're fairly similar. And if women don't have any good bacteria in their vaginal environment, we talked about before how that really helps with implantation of embryos. So we just work on that. That can take six weeks to fix that. It's easy, right?
A lot of the time, or if they've got a really bad bacteria there, they didn't know about that. They might not have any symptoms, but they might have quite a lot of bad guys living there as well. So that's [00:34:00] simple to do, and that can make a big difference. I do a lot of that these days. It's pretty new technology, maybe last four or five years I've been doing that.
Sam: Yeah. I guess that more we venture into understanding about microbiome, the more we're going to understand, just the importance of that. And of course in our, convenient lives, uh, we're not really helping ourselves. Our convenient lives, which are also with all the added chemicals we're kind of just killing off the microbiome.
Elysia: Yeah.and the gut microbiome really helps with fertility as well because if you've got a leaky gut, the chemicals that are, that are in your gut or any toxins from gut bugs will leak out into and around the ovaries and the pelvis. So anyone with. really bad gut health or inflammatory bowel disease or irritable bowel can often be very beneficial to work on gut health as well for fertility can make, make an absolutely huge difference and even something like organic food, a lot of us can't afford to eat or 100 percent organic because of the cost of food and [00:35:00] stuff. But um, yeah, there were some studies on different chemicals and pesticides and stuff affecting you know, hormonal health or even sperm health. So if we can get spray free or some organic food that can make a big difference.
Sam: just getting clear on what, you know, like looking for that list, I always think about that dirty dozen.
Elysia: right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam: I mean, I'm, there's probably a dirty million now, but I feel like
Elysia: Hmm.
Sam: we can be quite clever in that, but yeah, that's interesting because we were actually just talking about that this morning at yoga and just how.
The idea of building up our natural microbiome by getting organic veggies. And we were talking about making a concoction, actually. One of the ladies was talking about making ice cubes every morning, she's been making ice cubes with some lemon and ginger and you know, other really yummy things, putting in lemon juice.
And then in the morning, she just puts that into her. Into some hot water and it's her sort of immune. Um, And she had some [00:36:00] elderberry that she'd been growing and she's added that in now. So that for the, for this season, she's going to have that immunity. And then we were saying, gosh, and you could do that by having your bone broth.
And then you could do an organic sort of cube of, you know, organic veggies that you've got, stick it into your bone broth. And each day be having this sort of, I don't know, we were saying it's like a natural way of making, you know, how you can get green powder that always.
Elysia: a tonic, yeah, natural, yeah,
Sam: But yeah, and, we were just having this moment and all going, gosh, that would be so simple.
We would feel really good. It's actually quite simple and it would mean that you wouldn't necessarily need to buy all the organic produce. You could just get this amount, really make sure you're getting a real dose and
Elysia: yeah, yeah, often little things help, like even like doing that or having chia seeds every day, like a couple of tablespoons of chia seeds and making a little pudding and some almond milk or some yogurt if You can have dairy, the chemicals in that help you poo properly and nourish your
Sam: You [00:37:00] have to have organic. Do you have to have organic chia seeds? Can you
Elysia: I would just because it doesn't mean organic ones are actually pretty cheap and they're not. Anything tiny like a seed just not covered in spray, it's easy to get, Yeah. but just simple things or apple cider vinegar really changes the microbiome. So, putting apple cider vinegar over your salads or over your broccoli and on your plate at night huge changes to your microbiome over time using that and your digestive quality like little, little things can help as well,
Sam: And I feel it's those little things. One of the things we were discussing is it's the little things that don't feel stressful
or don't add to the load that we can do will actually make us feel good. So one of the things I was thinking was I would feel like a very successful person. If I could, we were saying when someone came over, you'd like, would you like an ice cube and pulling out your, your tray of immune cubes? Yes.
Elysia: ice cubes?
Sam: I don't know. It sounds silly, but it would, know, because I feel like in our world, we're constantly fed with this sort of pressure to be, you know, [00:38:00] especially when we're going through some kind of health challenge or a fertility challenge. We're fed with all the things that we should be doing, which I think adds to the pressure of I just can't do all of those things.
And so I'm just. I'm thinking outside as someone who's not qualified to say this, but it's surely doing something little, but every day is going to have a better impact than sort of going for that huge, you know, burn out, I'm going to meal prep for the next month. And then you get to day three and you just throw it all away and go and get Maccas. Do
Elysia: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And look, and often I'll have discussions around people on how, how to have really easy meals or if they're buying ready made meals, which ones to buy. Thank you for that, Mackenzie. It's either that or they're having Maccas. It's like, okay, well, we can Do some good, ready made meals that you can buy.
And that's, that's fine. We just make sure they don't heat it up in the plastic though. Because, you know there's a lot of chemicals in plastic and hot plastics, but yeah, so many just easy things for food or meal box deliveries or, you know, all sorts [00:39:00] of things just to take some of the stress out of it.
Yeah. Everything doesn't have to be. perfect all at once. And that, that's why I think the overwhelm is often there for IVF because there's a lot of information and a lot of people really educate themselves. They'll come to me and they've researched everything and, and they're very clever.
I'm almost like, Hey, do you want a job? Like I can, I can employ you. Like you've actually done yourself a really good plan, but it's exhausting having to worry about it all yourself. And a lot of people come to me, even if they have put themselves on a pretty decent plan because they've read so much. They just want to know that they're on the right track, even if they're really well educated.
And it just gets stressful sorting it all out yourself. So that's why I think feeling like you've got a good team around you helps you feel I think you're absolutely right. And that's what I, I just feel as well, personally as someone who, plays around with trying to be knowledgeable and doing the right thing that yes, we never truly know that what we're doing, cause we're not a specialist. I haven't done, all the years of study that you've done.
Sam: We can Google it, but we don't truly know if it's what we need [00:40:00] and if it's actually going to be beneficial. And I feel I recently just was listening to a podcast where they were talking about just how unregulated the supplement industry is. and it really just dawned on me that because we're so fed by marketing that is someone, you know, who isn't a specialist can easily be pulled in by this supplement is going to do this, this, and this, but actually the regulation isn't there to support it necessarily being as effective as they're saying. They can
Elysia: I do agree. I talk about that with my patients a lot. Actually especially people ordering stuff from overseas. Because it's generally a lot cheaper to get on like your Code Q10 or whatever from overseas websites. But there's a reason for that. Australian supplements actually are really well regulated by our TGA.
So have like a code on the side that means it's TGA approved. And so I've toured through some of the [00:41:00] herbal and supplement companies that I prescribe stuff from and they've got all these biochemists there and they've got all these screens with all the chemicals of each batch of herbs.
They batch test them, they make sure if it's chamomile that someone hasn't substituted another plant that looks like that. They've checked the chemistry of it. They have to test it every 3, 6, 12, 18 months once they've released it as a batch test the quality. So it's a great like. Proper supplements from Australian registered companies are more expensive, but there's a reason because The strength of what it says it is is there they have to check at the expiry date It's still as strong as they say it was on the label But there are some people get away like I've seen hormone blends and this and that where they're registered as a food not a supplement So they get around it and there's some Australian companies doing that yeah, so I'm just the quality control wouldn't be there that wouldn't necessarily have the same amount in every time because they don't have to prove it because they haven't registered as a supplement.
But yeah.as far as it goes, our therapeutic [00:42:00] goods administration for supplements is pretty stringent. But when I see people on a million supplements from America. Like with there's been studies on that they might have ordered melatonin or any hormones off the internet and they're Sometimes there's none there at all other times It's double what it says or half what it says on the label.
Like Yeah,sometimes you don't know what you're getting But Yeah,anyway taking the stress out of it
Sam: so I think what I'm trying, yeah, that's right, and what I'm trying to say is I think that's, you know, that's where I'm, Obviously getting clearer as I get older and I've, doubled around is, yeah, if you go to a specialist, you're going to get told what it is that you need for you.
And that's likely to be more effective than just that and probably cheaper in the long run because you're not going to buy all these other things that you probably don't need. And then we have those drawers that we have full of
Elysia: Yeah. Full of stuff. Yeah. And even, even like people might be on the right stuff, like CoQ10, for example, for health or sperm motility. But I'll look at the. The dose, and they're only taking a third of what they should be according to the studies. [00:43:00] So they might be on the right stuff, but they're not on the right dose, and no wonder it wasn't working.
You know, or like inositol, for bringing insulin down, and they're only taking it once a day, and you've got to double it and take it twice a day, and like, you know, there's just, that's what you, I guess, you see someone for that knows what they're doing, because, you know, certain dosages and certain amounts, and.
Certain brands that are a bit rubbish and use. cheap, quality stuff that doesn't absorb and all of that. Yeah. There's a lot, there's a lot, there's a lot to take. Like I will literally go, what is the brand? And I'll go through everything they're taking. I'll go, Yeah,
that one's cool. Love that. You keep buying that or no, change to this. Or, you know, we kind of
Sam: yeah. yeah, good. Well, thank you. I feel like that's been a good hopefully to anyone listening, helpful chat that might support you in just being able to help yourself a bit more and know some of the paths that you might be able to take and where you might be able to get support, is there any closing words that you would like to say for anyone who is on an IVF journey right now?
Elysia: Hmm. I just think, look [00:44:00] after yourself. Nourish yourself. Hmm. You know, get a good team around you like, like, like I've already said, and be kind to yourself, like treat yourself as if you were talking to your best friend, you know, just be very, very gentle with and loving with yourself and to realize that it's a marathon, not a sprint.
And sometimes your enthusiasm and mood will be high and other times it will be very low and that's okay. And thank you. What we've talked about today is just the tip of the iceberg, but yeah, just to get a good, good team around you, wherever you are in, in the world or the country, I think, you know, it takes the load off a little, Yeah.
Sam: Yeah.
Elysia: you for the chat.
Sam: Thank you so much for your time today and yeah, it was really nice to talk to you.
Elysia: My pleasure.
Sam: Yeah, thank you. [00:45:00]
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DISCLAIMER:
This podcast is for information and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
