Episode 7: Demystifying perimenopause and menopause
In this episode of Women of the Well, Dr Peta Wright and holistic counsellor Sam Lindsay-German are unpacking one of the biggest topics for women in their 40s and 50s – perimenopause and menopause.
There’s a lot of information out there (and a lot of misinformation too), but Dr Peta and Sam explain why this transition doesn’t have to be something to fear.
🎧 Tune in to hear:
🍃 What perimenopause and menopause actually are, and when the changes typically start.
🍃 Sam’s personal experience and the insights Peta has learned from her patients, sharing how symptoms like hot flushes, brain fog, and mood swings can be influenced by stress and lifestyle.
🍃 A brief look at HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) – why it’s one option, but definitely not the only one.
🍃 Why this time of life can be a gateway to more clarity, creativity, and freedom as you step into your “wisdom years.”
Whether you’re just beginning to explore perimenopause or are already in the thick of your transition, this episode is filled with actionable advice and supportive insights to help you navigate it all with more confidence.
Additional information and resources:
Wise Power by Alexandra Pope and Sjanie Hugo Wurlitzer – A transformative book that redefines menopause as a spiritual journey and a catalyst for personal empowerment.
Red School – Founded by Alexandra Pope an.d Sjanie Hugo Wurlitzer, offering courses and resources on menstruality and menopause to help women embrace their cycles and life stages.
Ayurveda – The ancient Indian holistic healing system that provides insights into the natural transitions of life and how to balance your body's energies during menopause.
More about the Vera Wellness Embracing Your Wise Woman Years Retreat:
At Vera, we run the Embracing Your Wise Woman Years event – a full-day retreat-style event designed to support women through the transition of perimenopause and menopause.
It includes talks from our gynaecologists and holistic practitioners, rituals to honour this life stage, and practical advice on navigating your health.
Find out more and register your interest for upcoming events here.
Join our Podcast VIP Club:
To stay in the loop with every new episode of Women of the Well and gain first access to special resources and events – join our Podcast VIP Club here.
Episode transcript:
Ep 7 – Demystifying perimenopause and menopause
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[00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of our podcast. I'm Sam Lindsay German and this is Peta Wright. Hello. And this week we are going to be demystifying perimenopause and menopause. And most importantly, really figuring out what we actually need to know.
So from my point of view, this is about really taking the difference of what we're reading on the internet and siphoning through it and figuring out where are the facts and where's the fiction and where are they overlapping and what should we do?
Yep, because it feels like if you're a woman who is in their 40s, 50s, .... everywhere you look, uh, if you were to go or on your social media feed, um, the impression that you would get from being in this age at this age from the information that's out there. Yes, there's a lot of information, which is good that people are talking about it, but it's also so [00:02:00] pressured.
And I think also so fearful and there's no reverence for the positives and the really wonderful things that happen at this age. It's all just, these are all the terrible, horrible, awful things you can expect like just completely doom and gloom and everybody needs to be on hormone therapy if they want to be healthy and well until the day they die and that's it and I guess that's a big huge pendulum swing from What it used to be where it was a lot of women having a suffering with severe symptoms who, felt that hormone therapy was unsafe or they didn't have access to it because people didn't know how to prescribe or, or counsel around it, which we don't want either.
But I think we need to come to the middle. Absolutely. So thinking about where, where we start in unpacking this. If we're talking about the perimenopause, what [00:03:00] perimenopause is, because these are all just words that are bandied about. And perimenopause simply refers to the time or the years before menopause.
And that can be sometimes from the late 30s for some women, but mostly from the early 40s for most women. And then menopause is simply the word to explain that you're now 12, it's now been 12 months since your last period and then you say you're menopausal at that stage. And that's generally around, on average around 51 for women in Australia.
So I'm 43. So I'm in my perimenopausal years, I suppose you would say. And Sam? I'm 50 and I'm still bleeding. So I'm still perimenopausal. Yes. And every month waiting just to sort of, that's how I feel every month. Every month I'm excited to get another bleed. Yay. And are you experiencing any symptoms None.
Well, I say none because [00:04:00] I don't know if, uh, sometimes I contemplate, maybe I am, but they're not challenging me. So sometimes I think I get warm, like now we're doing this. It's things like when I'm doing something and I feel a bit of pressure, I can notice that I might get some heat, but I've learned that that could be other things as well.
Like maybe just some energy moving through my body, which is how I work with it. And my periods seem to be still relatively regular. They may be a little bit longer or a little bit shorter, but not drastic. And I don't have any symptoms of extra bleeding or anything like that. If anything, maybe there's less bleeding.
I think one of the things, and we'll talk about this, is my lifestyle seems to, to lend itself well to journeying through this stage of life. And I'm excited about this stage of life. I think you've been waiting to be like the wise woman for some time, to grow into your skin. Not just that, but just because my children are reaching a certain age.
I've got four children and, you know, my youngest is [00:05:00] about to turn 17. I always knew this was, you know, It's the doorway of freedom again, but for you, this is even this year that you've turned 50. You've now, you're now the owner of your gym. That's true. And like there's this whole other chapter of your life opening up to you.
That's right. It makes me a bit teary. Yeah, you can see that, can't you? Yeah, I know. I'm like, oh, there's stuff there, which is, I think, part of it really. And that's nice. And that's, I think, also part of the discomfort and the It's emotional symptoms that come in and we all know that emotional symptoms and feelings and emotions and where, how nervous system feels, how stressed we are about something absolutely affects our physical body and the physical symptoms that we have.
So, you know how we feel about this transition will translate into the symptoms that we have too. And I personally as someone who, and we'll get into facts and in a moment, but as someone who is [00:06:00] obviously at 50, so I feel that this is. You know, my kind of stage going through this whilst it's such a big thing on social media, I knowing all that I know which I feel like is a lot in this field and certainly from a holistic point of view Not so much a medical point of view, but I feel I've come to you and via many times just going I'm confused and And I feel like that's one of my big things I have shivers as I say it, because if I'm confused as someone who is quite sovereign in themselves, and I'm questioning, should I be, you know, should I take HRT?
You know, I, I don't know how someone who doesn't have that same level of understanding About this or themselves would be coping mm hmm because it is so much fear I think that I guess if we look at the facts of things So what are the kinds of symptoms that we're talking about? So some women have no symptoms and breeze [00:07:00] through like 20 percent of women and that might be used actually 20 percent Yeah So that's not an insignificant amount.
No. But we never hear that. No. Great. Let's say it again. 20 percent of women will breeze through with minimal symptoms. I love that. About 60 percent of women will have mild to moderate symptoms. And then another 20 percent will have severe, more severe symptoms that may go on and, persist past menopause as well.
So it's actually only the smaller number of women who actually have severe, really debilitating symptoms. The vast majority of people have quite manageable symptoms and there's a range of options. So what do you, and what do you see, and the first, I was just going to say before we do this, what It's much the same as how I feel about everything, whether you birth a child naturally or breastfeed your child versus bottle feed.
There is no perfect way to do this and we're not saying that you should breeze through menopause. Or you're better if you breeze through. That's exactly it. We're not saying, no one is better [00:08:00] at doing this, we're all just women, living and surviving in our world. But it's really good and helpful to understand what's possible.
But when you are in your office and people are coming in to see you in the clinic, what do you What kinds of symptoms do they have? Yeah, what do you most see? So, hot flushes, but I actually think that the You know, the many women report some hot flushes that change over time. So I guess like if we take a step back and I'll just talk about the physiology, which might be boring for a minute of what's happening in that transition.
So that perimenopausal time, which is usually where the trouble is rather than the menopausal time when it's like smooth sailing. So what's happening is our ovaries are starting to run out of viable eggs. And so, our brain, which sends messages to our ovaries to tell our ovaries to make an egg and to make estrogen, it's like it starts to sputter along a little bit like a car that's [00:09:00] kind of running out of petrol, if that makes sense.
And so instead of having our regular hormonal ups and downs over the course of the month, we start to have. Erratic ups and downs of hormones. So particularly in the first stages of perimenopause, we might have high and fluctuating levels of estrogen and lower levels of progesterone. And so that can end up with symptoms like more heavy bleeding because estrogen stimulates the lining of uterus.
So more estrogen, often more uterine lining and heavier bleed without the progesterone that we normally have to thin the lining out. So if we have high estrogen and low progesterone, that's when we tend to get those big heavy bleeds. And if we're not ovulating or making an egg as frequently, we might get those missed periods.
Our periods might be, might be shorter. Our cycles might be shorter at first and then start to space out and become more irregular. And then cycles where we have high estrogen, women might report More trouble with [00:10:00] migraines, headaches, breast tenderness, and the heavy bleeding. And then that might be followed by a cycle with lower oestrogen.
And in that cycle, they might have more hot flushes. They might miss their period altogether. They might have more irritability, sleep issues, mood issues. So, it can be, it's, it's up and down and erratic and some people describe it as a bit of a second puberty or a second adolescence. So, in, we know when girls are first starting to get their period and they're just getting used to ovulating, the same thing is happening.
That brain ovary connection is starting to be established and it can also have that similar pattern. And if you did it, looked at a graph of women's hormones at that puberty stage, it's all erratic and up and down. And then if you can remember, or you've got daughters, they might have like that history of long, prolonged bleeding and really irregular cycles for the first bit and [00:11:00] all the mood and hormonal stuff that goes with it.
And then so if you look at a graph of hormones that it's almost, it's very similar in that puberty compared to the perimenopause stage and in the middle in our reproductive years, it's that nice regular ups and downs. So, yeah, they're the things that I think with severe hot flushes are probably, I don't think that many women come with persistent hot flushes.
It comes and goes. And when we say hot flush, we're talking about someone getting extremely hot, sweating, feeling like they're blushing. Yep. What's the worst things that do, what are they the main symptoms that people have? Yeah, and just feeling like extremely hot and flustered and it might happen, you know, in an important work meeting and then they can't think straight.
And I think maybe up until this point where women have not been able to speak about their experiences, they feel, you know, Like embarrassed, I mean I guess again if you think about the analogy of the puberty bit when young girls might have a big bleed All of a sudden [00:12:00] and we basically can't talk about it and we feel there's that shame or stigma But I think that's actually changing and there was that ABC journalist who had a hot flush Whilst she was on air and talked about it and I think talking about what we're going through as women in our everyday experience It will probably lessen the physicality of the symptom as well.
But those things, sometimes brain fog is a really big thing. Sometimes not being able to find the words for things. Sometimes feeling anxious or, uh, Um, lower energy or lower mood, they can be really big ones. Many women will talk to me about like a lower libido. And whilst like we could do a whole episode and that's, we won't get into it.
And then other things like vaginal dryness, so that lack of estrogen. In the vaginal tissue and sometimes more urinary symptoms, like more stress incontinence and things like that, muscle aches and pains, [00:13:00] sometimes dry eyes, sometimes more muscular things like frozen shoulder and things like that.
Do we know why, sorry, but do we know why things, I'm always interested in the frozen shoulder and that, because I have quite a few women that come to me.
Do we actually know why that happens? I think it's because of estrogen and it's affecting their muscles. Yeah. Because, you know. I mean, in yogic science, it's to do with Ojas, which is the body's like lubrication system. And this time, you know, and it's that whole idea that at this time of our life, we're drying.
And so the idea is that we've got to, Oil ourselves really and do that from the inside out. So it's about finding ways that we can become Yeah, more supple supple and have more lubrication within us. Mm hmm. Just in always interesting to me So that anyway aside, but I have a dick Lee It's very interesting and exactly the same for [00:14:00] talking about the transition from teenage years So that transition that we go through We say that when we're on the cusp of two eras, it becomes frictional because it's like two parts.
So we move from that Kapha stage of a young childhood to the Pitta stage, which is the fire and moving into our energetic years, they, they hit. And it's the same as the other energy. Yeah. So we go from the Pitta. Can you explain that a little bit more? Yeah. So when we move from this stage, if you think the Pitta years, can you explain Pitta for people to get, you know, like, And, it's one of the doshes, one of the doshes in Ayurvedic science.
And so we have, Kapha, Pitta and Vata. And, the Pitta one is where we really, that energy is very, go energy, it's quite active energy. It's a driven force. It is in the years that we're doing things. So it's what we want to be. We're making babies, making businesses, doing life. And so we need [00:15:00] lots of energy.
And it's actually why when we're in puberty, they say that we move from, Kaffir is earth based. So it's very steady and stable. Babies just tend to be, and then puberty comes and there's this sort of fire coming in. And that's why we say teenagers get sort of spots and things like that coming up, you know, it's like that.
Energy. And it's exactly the same at the other end. So we get through these pity years, um, and our energy starts to dwindle, and we start to move more into the vata years, and there's a friction then. And so almost the same things happen, but with a vata it becomes sort of airy, dry. And vata, if you have too much vata imbalance, then you can be a little bit anxiety.
And yeah, and You know, the cloudiness, the fuzziness can be there, which is almost like we need to actually just sit and find clarity again. Well, there's also, it's funny you talk about the friction because there's a lot of holding on and I find in that transition [00:16:00] because of the society that we live in, that so glorifies And it's that the idea of perimenopause and menopause is terrifying for so many women because it signifies it's that reminder that we're aging and it's this next part of our lives.
And it's a tap on the shoulder to get clear about what really matters to us and what we need to let go of and what we want to bring more of into the next And I think when we really resist that transition, and I see, I do see a lot of women really wanting to resist that and wanting to be like, just give me the hormones because I just want to stay in this same, I don't want my body to change and I don't want my physiology to change and I just want to stay in this.
stage. There's a real reluctance to move into that next stage. I think is so understandable. None of us really want to go through change and we also have a fear because of what we've seen maybe [00:17:00] previously and then all the stuff that tells us how terrible it's going to be. And I, I feel when I look at all those, you know, like you've just listed out all those, symptoms and many, many times now it's become clear to me that those symptoms are absolutely the same symptoms that we would see with someone who's suffering from chronic stress, who's going through, you know, a journey of inflammation and those other things.
And I feel like the two are not apart. They're absolutely together. And it's because we reached out We have reached a crescendo point in our life. Most women at my age at 50 and even at your age are juggling children, jobs, marriages, sometimes marriages breaking up and parents getting sick. They're like holding so many things.
And the last person they're considering is themselves. And so menopause kind of takes you, shakes you, and says, uh, I'm not going to be [00:18:00] around to do all this stuff unless you're going to start paying attention to me. And we're literally going, ooh, that's a lot. I can't do that. Give me anything to help me not have to do that.
Which I think is really understandable. Yeah, and I think in cultures where, you know, where women aren't, bearing the burden of that ridiculous load that you've just, I feel exhausted. And I've been seeing patients all morning who've been describing this similar, similar scenario. Um, you know, a lady coming to see me saying I feel tired at 55 and then explaining, her, five-day a week corporate job, her four children that she's looking after, doing all of the other things that she needs to do to stay well and healthy.
And like, well, no wonder you're exhausted. Like there is, uh, the pace of our lives is crazy. And I do think that the amount that's on our plates and the amount of stress and unresolved things do [00:19:00] have an impact on symptoms as well. Like, you always talk about the corridor. Yes, the corridor of our forties.
Can you talk about the corridor of our forties? Yeah, so for me, the way I understand it is, we get to our forties, which most people are not excited to turn forty, sadly, and we walk through the forties and we have this long corridor to our fifties. And I feel like when we turn 40, we start to look to 50 because we go, Oh, I'm closer to my fifties.
And it's along that corridor that we have to walk. And as we walk down there, it's basically our opportunity to, to really look inside all the closets. It's like, we're walking down a corridor. There are all these doors. They're doors that have kept stuff in them all these years. And some of those doors that we sort of walk past in my open and go, Oh, that's okay.
I'm, I can totally ignore it. Okay. Some of the doors, we've crammed stuff in there so much, they kind of explode out on us and take over our life for some time. We have to go through it. We have to deal with it. And it's like that walking through your forties. And [00:20:00] the whole purpose in my mind is this is the point where we really truly get to have an opportunity to understand, you know, what is actually, what are my beliefs?
Not what are the beliefs I was given by my parents, by my teachers, by my work, by, but what are my beliefs and how can I now actually filter through? And actually work out what I can let go of and what I'm going to take with me into my wisdom years. And I think even saying into my wisdom years is such a absolute departure from what we're here with.
No one says that. And I think that talking about moving into your wisdom years is an incredible way of thinking about what's happening rather than this like slow crumbly destruction, which is what women are faced with when they're on social media or. on the internet. Because I think that's just so empowering.
And, and it, well, it has to be empowering because we, [00:21:00] and you know, you can maybe talk a bit better about this than I can, but in my mind, how, and I've spent time with many women who have gone through menopause and they talk about feeling a great new sense of freedom of relief of being caught in the cyclical nature of our menstrual cycle.
So we're no longer. I mean, I don't know. I haven't got there yet, but we're no longer so fluctuating, sort of being pulled by the energies of the oestrogen and the progesterone. We don't have that happening, which means we can actually get a little bit clearer and, and actually become more stable in our sense of self and therefore actually probably serve our communities better.
Well, all of the studies report that women who go, who cross that threshold of menopause, Instability and the turbulence of the perimenopausal years actually report a greater sense of well being than they did prior. So it's like it isn't doom and gloom that other side where the hormones all are stabilized and [00:22:00] even if you don't choose to go on hormone HRT or MHT or whatever new terminology we're using for hormone replacement therapy.
Women report a sense of ease and greater well being than before. And I was thinking, I was talking to this with a patient this morning about like the purpose of menopause, because I think, you know, now there's so much like Western medicine has, It makes you feel, if you go on social media, that Western medicine and society in general has failed us all by not realizing that menopause is a medical condition that should have been, that everyone should be treated for, right?
Which I think is totally wrong. I think that if you have symptoms that are bothering you or you choose to go on hormone therapy for whatever reason, that's more power to you. But it's not, it is not a disease. Our bodies are Why is like our bodies have evolved to have a menopausal time where we're not as Sam was saying it in the cycle in the trapped in the [00:23:00] cycles of ovulation, menstruation and the hormonal ups and downs for a reason.
And if you look at like anthropological data, like the ideas behind why this is so and where of only. I think it's, whales and like some little desert rat that, I can't remember the exact species that, that, um, go through menopause. So we're really unique. And when you think about it, I was talking to a patient this morning who is like, the other complaint I should have, should mention is weight gain.
So a lot of women will come and say, weight gain is another thing. And I was saying that because when we ovulate, that's actually quite a, high energy process for our bodies. And when we ovulate our metabolism increases and we're no longer having to do that. So our metabolism drops and we become like this more energy efficient version.
So we're not, not needing as much energy thinking about like a, I don't know, a petrol [00:24:00] guzzling four wheel drive and we're upgrading to like a sleek sports car. I don't know, that doesn't need Yeah, a Tesla. We're probably becoming a Tesla, that's right. Something that needs less fuel. Yeah. But if we go on eating the same as when we were The four wheel drive, then of course with the change metabolism we're going to put on weight, where before we wouldn't with the same amount of food, right?
But the thing that I was saying to her is, so if we think about this from a cultural, anthropological point of view and the way we evolved, Menopausal women were so valuable to the societies that they belong to because they're energy efficient. They don't eat as much as the other people in the tribe.
They are wise. They've been around the block. They know where the good berries are or how to hunt for certain things or how to weave or how to, you know, how to do a lot of things and teach the younger generations. They're not, they're not, Bound by [00:25:00] pregnancy, by rearing small children so that they're able to actually be there to take care of the family, the other children and help with hunting and not be a drain on resources.
And you know, that wisdom. So there is a reason why our bodies have done this. Like it's not a design flaw. And I think that the idea that somehow, we're thinking about this as a disease process is really flawed. Gosh, yes, that was brilliant. I agree with everything you just said. And I absolutely, it's not a design flaw.
In fact, how could we ever imagine that our body doesn't know best? Because I always think about this. I didn't do, you know, my body just got pregnant. Then it grew a baby and it birthed a baby. I mean, I had to have help, but it still went through the whole healed. I breastfed a bit. I look at it and go, yeah, I literally, it just happened.
And. It's the same now. How could that body not know exactly what it's [00:26:00] doing moving into these next years? And I think exactly what you're saying. I, in terms of the, you know, thinking about the weight gain and stuff. I remember my transition from, uh, motherhood, you know, like I had to really adjust my diet because at one point my husband even had to say, you're still eating quite a lot.
That's why you're having a challenge. Yeah. And then I was like, Oh, maybe you're right. Because I was just so used to being in that sort of high energy. And, and I had to adapt and I feel that you're, these are the things that we don't discuss. We go on, get caught up in all this intermittent fasting and crazy ideas about what we should be doing for our diet.
But to stay exactly the same as what we were, it's almost like as well, if you thought about puberty and that adolescent period in the same way, right? I have been talking about this for a long time with teenage girls and for example, the stuff that they go through with, as we talked about. The irregular periods, which is part of the normal development of the brain, the ovary axis and the bleeding [00:27:00] difficulties that can sometimes come with it and the acne and the other things.
And, you know, what we could do is say, everyone that's too messy and uncomfortable for you, we should just, you should just go on the pill, which for a lot of women, that's what happens. And for a lot of years, I think that was the first line thing. And I think, I think that the idea of that is. It's horrendous to think that we just have to medicate away the natural development of our bodies, which do know best.
And I think a lot of the difficulties that happen in that time happen because of the stress and the environment and the other things that are happening around us as well. So I guess the idea of thinking that menopause, which is a natural transition is like a disease is just as ridiculous as thinking that puberty is a disease.
That we have to medicate away. Well, they're just different spectrums of puberty. Yes. They're, you know, puberty menopause, they're the same. The different spectrums of our cycles. And, and you're absolutely right. I just think that that's, and I [00:28:00] was going to ask, what, so surely we can see what happens to women when they don't go through the natural way of pregnancy.
Going through puberty if they are suppressing it using well, no, what normally happens is and again, this is a whole other conversation But yes, and for some women and again General like for some women they do need help to manage symptoms and help make their life easier a thousand percent. So But as a blanket thing, I think it's it's really important you know, bad medicine.
Um, but I do see a lot of women who had been put on the pill, you know, a year, less than a year after they had their first period without being explained to, hey, this is a normal part of your development. These are the ways we can support you to help minimize the risk. Bleeding or reduced heavy bleeding without having to turn everything off, but often when Girls are just put on the pill at that young young age then when they come off it It's not like they don't have to go through all that.
It's like kicking the can down the road So it's the same thing [00:29:00] for example say if I've seen a woman who had stayed on the pill for a long time at the other end, and then when they come off it, because their body's been really used to higher levels of estrogen then they find it even harder to even come off onto natural, like the HRT that we use, because their brain has become so Almost addicted in some ways to this flat high level of estrogen in the pill that they can't even tolerate the drop that comes with natural hormone replacement therapy.
And it's really distressing for them. And I think that's like, yeah. So the brain has not had time to adjust. No, and every month when we have a cycle, That luteal phase, that's often so, and that's also another big episode, the luteal phase or that PMS time, that's like a little perimenopause each time, a tiny perimenopause.
It's a time we get to practice the letting go, until the [00:30:00] big letting go, which is, you know, Perimenopause and that's exactly it. So we go into… both Peta and I are in our luteal phase now, so , that's why we're a little bit wrath, . But it's it's really interesting because that's how I always see it, that the veil comes down at this point and no longer can you say yes when everything in you is raging.
No. You know, we've become very good. And I just really want to say that to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, I see estrogen as being the hormone that keeps us in our homemaker time is designed to keep us. around the home looking after our children. And even if we don't have children, it's still designed to do that.
It's designed to keep us in our communities, caring for our communities, doing what's needed to keep the communities going, because that's what we're designed to people pleasing hormone. Yeah, that's right. It's like if you think about ovulation when you're at that peak of ovulation and you're like, yes, I can be all things to all people.
And then it comes [00:31:00] crashing down and you know, the rose colored glasses come off and you can't put up with this shit anymore. Well, that's right. So I feel like that's what, that's why in those. You know, in our sort of homemaker years or the, that time when we're in our prime, as we like to call it, that's exactly what we're experiencing.
And it's keeping us in that stage of sort of being okay with caring for small children and caring for our husbands and doing those things. And then we have that little window every month where we just go, hang on, it's like we get clarity. The veil comes down and we suddenly go, But why have I been doing those things?
You know, and it's like the hormone drug wears off a bit. And then we see clarity and we start to go, No, I really don't want to make a hundred cupcakes at all. I don't know why I would have thought that was a good idea. And so once we get to menopause, that window becomes much more apparent. And that's why, um, the beautiful Red School.
I love Red School. That's that is the book to read around this, Wise [00:32:00] Power. so much. Um, fantastic book around menopause. It's the one I recommend to everyone. But in there, they basically say at the beginning, when we go through it, we, we hit this point where we literally just want to burn the house down.
And that's another thing that women will come to me with, with anger. And they'll say, and I'm angry and angry at my children for not doing the dishes. And I'm angry. And I'll say, But do you think it's reasonable that you're angry with them? And they're like, well, yeah, it's like, exactly. It's reasonable anger.
Like it's totally reasonable and it has a purpose, but you've just suppressed it for all these years and now it's coming out. And because women are told they're never allowed to be angry, it feels like a problem to be medicated away. But it's, it's like a valid anger. That needs to be said. Well, it has to be said because the, and I think we'll go to the next place in this after where it's my brain is going to when we have children later in life and that can be challenging.
But most of the time for me, my children are all older teenagers or actually adults and one of them just not quite yet. [00:33:00] they should be doing things themselves. And so if I'm not going through that stage, I'm not actually helping them to become who they need to be. So this is actually still part of the evolution.
And it's helping me to not have so much of a grip on them because as a woman, And if you're a mother, you'll understand what I'm talking about even more than, um, anyone who's, I mean, even every woman will go through this, but it's this idea. We've got to constantly let go of our children, constantly let go of things.
We make something, we create it, we have to let it go. And it's hard for us. And I believe that menopause is a stage where. It actually starts to make it easier. When my first son left home, I was a wreck wanting to cry and curl up in the corner and, don't leave, I can't cope, I don't know what I'll do. And now I'm thinking, will they ever actually all go?
It's like a whole spectrum. And I think that that's the hormonal gentle work. Yeah. And the anger as well, like the anger, if you can go [00:34:00] beyond, but beneath what the anger is like, I don't want this. I don't want, the dishes in the sink at the end of the night. I don't want this horrible job that I hate and I've just been doing it for 10 years.
I, you can get to, you can stay stuck in the anger and that's not helpful, but we need to be able to express it and then to figure out what it means because underneath that anger is a desire. And I think that's the purpose of anger at this point is if you can identify, okay, I hate this job. I'm angry about it.
I hate going there. I'm going to snap at my colleagues. Um, but underneath that is the desire of actually wish that I was. I was working three days a week or, and I was doing more of something else that I enjoy or I worked for myself or something else is a desire under there. And it helps you to get clear on what the next part of your life is.
I think if we just look at these symptoms, like, you know, if, if a woman came to me and went, these are all my symptoms. And I just went, okay, [00:35:00] we've got the things that can fix that, the HRT or the antidepressants or whatever. I just think, again, that is just. It's terrible, like yes, hormones and the biological stuff can help, um, in certain situations and maybe part of the puzzle, but it's about what is that remembering the wisdom of our bodies and what is the symptom, the message, the feeling trying to tell us.
So for the woman I saw today with the tiredness, I was like, do you think your body is telling you that you need to Rest a bit more. There's no time for you. And she was like, ah, actually, that's really true. So we just thought of some logistical ways that she could outsource some cooking and do a roster for her teenage children who can help prepare food and like, you know, do the dishes and create some accountability for the other people who are living in her home so that she's not always carrying the load.
Which of course would make her tired and [00:36:00] irritable and then that was all we did. You know, it was like, Oh, you'll come with a message. Let's, let's listen to the message. I, I, and I think you're absolutely right. I just think it's so beautiful that you can do that and offer those women that time. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
They're exactly the same. I saw a woman recently and she was saying the same. Just, she said, I'm bone tired. And I said, I think that's really understandable. You've been working for 18 years. It was, I'm sure it was 18. It was a lot, you know, since you were 18 and we just both sat for a moment. Thank you. And she went, gosh, you're right, I started work at 18.
And just when we sit and say those things, because I did the same, I started work at 18, you sort of go, I don't really have a right to be tired. And nowadays with the way that we, I don't even know what happens with retirement, we talk about this, but the retirement age, it doesn't seem to be an end. We sort of see that with our denial of actually age, we [00:37:00] sort of have pushed life to be kind of forever.
It's not. And I, I know that's a big conversation, but it's, the truth is at some point we do have to sit with, yeah, I do have to make the most of the time that I have. And if I haven't been doing that for the past 20 years, because I've been caring for my family, working a job to support my family, doing what's been required of me to raise my children and be part of society, do my job in society, then there's got to be a point where we start to go.
What do I need now to do for me that can allow me to really enjoy this beautiful life that I've been blessed with? Totally. And I think it's very hard for people because of the, the fast pace of life that we've been through. All got ourselves into and that feeling that we're on that hamster [00:38:00] wheel and then we're working to pay the mortgage and to get the things and to think the things that we think we need to have to make our lives better or to have arrived or whatever.
And it's just a trap. And I also think, you know, hearing about there's a commission into menopause and people are always talking about we need to keep, there's this, there's this statistic about women quitting their jobs when they're menopausal and saying that it's because there's not enough support in the workplace and because they're they're suffering from debilitating symptoms.
And, I mean, I. Kind of think maybe but also maybe they just don't want to do their job that they don't like anymore And then they want to actually go in and do something else and the push to keep them in that Think about who that is benefiting the benefits Capitalism. And it benefits, it's neoliberalism, it benefits all of that.
It doesn't benefit the woman who's got, you know, 30 years of her life left that she wants to do something meaningful [00:39:00] and is like headed up to here with doing whatever she doesn't really like. Like it's not the menopause that's causing the thing and we don't have just to support people through menopause and that will keep them in the workforce longer.
It's about allowing. people to go gracefully into these transitional state stages. And that anger of like, I don't want to deal with this anymore is absolutely like understandable. And I think, you know, um, in the red school, they recommend that women try and allow themselves to have a sabbatical around menopause.
And they even talk about so hopefully some of you might be young enough to plan for this, but they talk about if you're young enough, start planning a sabbatical. Towards that, you know, saving money so that you can actually take that time out and giving yourself whatever you can on your own to just kind of, yeah, that's right.
And just really content. And I feel like that is a. You know, we get that when we have children. And so, and some women, I always think this [00:40:00] because this patient client that I had come to see me, she, she hadn't had children. I thought you haven't even had that time. You know, like most women will have time off because they've had children, but if you have chosen not to have children or you can't have children, then you don't.
And so you don't even get that pause during those, you know, child rearing years where we kind of stopped for a bit, come home or do whatever. And I was thinking, yeah, we, We all deserve to have a pause somewhere and that's what it should be. That's why it's called menopause. That's right. That's right.
, I guess the other thing to leave you with today is that, and we'll do a whole episode on HRT, this isn't the one, is most women report extra satisfaction and well being post menopause.
This is not a doom and gloom story. This is a chance to write this next juicy, amazing chapter of your life and do what it deserves. You've wanted to do all these years. One of the things that I often say, in [00:41:00] my yoga classes when we talk about menopause is this idea that rather than seeing, you know, the hot flush as something that we need to move away from, is to see that hot flush as something to move towards.
And that at this stage of life, it's said that it's a natural awakening point in our life. And yogic scriptures say that this is the point where a woman's Kundalini energy naturally arises because we're not bleeding still. So there's a shift that's happening in the way that energy is moving through our body, the downward flow of energy and the inward flow of energy.
And at that point, we. The Kundalini energy will awaken in us. And that's the same sensation as when we have a hot flush. And so for me, it's like hot flushes are giving us an opportunity to literally burn out anything that we don't need within us. They're like coming to say, something is not right here.
You know, like I was saying, I can notice I get warm when I feel a bit anxious or I'm [00:42:00] in a situation where I've taken on too much. And so I always go, okay, what's happening? Where have I gone too far? Where am I not looking after myself? Or I just sit and allow the energy to move through me and just think, this is good.
This is what I need. The same as, you Fevers serve a purpose in our body. The heat is, is cleansing us and when you can look at it like that rather than something that's coming to sort of destroy us, it, it changes the way you see it and you can actually work with it. So I really invite women to explore that.
Exactly as, you know, Peta was saying, that this is a stage where our body is naturally going through a process that is for us, not against us. If you can allow it to be without being fearful. It draws you into the present moment as well. And there, you know, there are many women report more hot flushes in a greater severity when they are stressed as well.
All of the things that [00:43:00] we're talking about some of the things that might influence or worsen symptoms like the stress and pace of life. These are things that I want to reiterate and not anybody's fault and it is the way our society has developed and I think we really we do though if we want to think holistically and big picture about why many women are suffering is we do need to think about that and think about how we can push back because we do have some power and agency and it's important to just to contemplate that I think and yeah and countries where women who are in their wisdom years are revered, like Japan.
There's probably other reasons, environmental, dietary reasons as well, but they report far less menopausal symptoms. But there's just such a panic at the moment. And I think we don't want to go back to let's never talk about it and everyone's suffering in silence while they're trying to maintain their careers, their small children, their [00:44:00] figures, like they're 18, which is all completely insane, or, but then the panic and the fear is, again, also, we have to think why we're getting, why and who's benefiting as well.
And there are, you know, and I'm a doctor who prescribes HRT and I think that for many women, it's exactly the right thing that they, and we'll talk more about it in our next episode, but I think that the, the fear driven push for all women to go on HRT, because this is a disease that we have failed women by not treating is not true.
So to finish, we'll say your wisdom ears can be incredibly beautiful and an amazing portal into this next part of our lives. And there's something to look forward to. Yes. Not be afraid of. Yep. And we'll also talk about in another episode, maybe about how you can mark that time in your life. I think that deserves a big episode.
We've got too much, too many things to talk about, but [00:45:00] we'll leave you by saying, thank you for listening. And we have run at Vera, periodically we've run one and we're having another one tomorrow, which will be in the past, by the time you listen to this, but keep an eye on our website and our socials for our Embracing Your Wise Woman Years retreats.
And it's a full day and it's with one of our gynecologists talking about the medical, the HOT aspects. It's with one of our dietitians talking about all things to do with diet, weight or that sort of stuff. Beautiful Sam will take you through an amazing ritual to honor and to mark this This transition time which I think is so missing and so needed and show you ways to do that in your community and we'll do a whole episode if you can't make one of our events but if you can come they're beautiful.
Yeah so as always if you have enjoyed this then please share it with your friends and [00:46:00] do check us out on our Instagram and which is verawellness. com. au, and also head over to the Vera website for any more information on anything that we've discussed today.
DISCLAIMER:
This podcast is for information and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
